The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[SpurtingLesbian]

But isn't that the point. Scotland doesn't have any options.....it's either left wing Labour or left wing SNP.....no choice at all.......

Labour in Scotland is far to the right of Labour down south even.

It's leader up here is an ultra Blairite, pro tuition fees (voted for them as leader of the NUS), voted for the privatisation of the NHS, is a member of the Henry Jackson Society and a really nasty peice of work.

The SNP are centre Left

 

[Toffeelover]

Oh yeah it is for students, although we aren't all students but we made use of a student letting agency.

My point being though, that if this was still social housing then a family could live in it more affordably.

By student standards it's relatively cheap. I'm paying £86 now and paid £105 last year.

In which case your contention does not hold up, it is not social housing, but student accommodation.

 

[Toffeelover]

As a guess I would say in the region of £35k.

With no tax deduction?

 

[Seanjd]

It is mate, they all have 52" plasma tellies, drive Benz's and go on three foreign holidays a year dontcha know?

That said, a friend of my wife, who is a single mother of one and is reliant on social security for her income, has far more disposable income than we, with two kids and a mortgage, do.

Wouldn't swap with her though, and don't feel bitter about it.

Haha. Seriously though, don't you hate that argument?

I remember Jamie Oliver a few years back, "how can people be poor when they can afford flat screen TVs?"

 

[Toffeelover]

Labour in Scotland is far to the right of Labour down south even.

It's leader up here is an ultra Blairite, pro tuition fees (voted for them as leader of the NUS), voted for the privatisation of the NHS, is a member of the Henry Jackson Society and a really nasty peice of work.

The SNP are centre Left

I think SNP are far more to the left than that, a long way from the centre.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

Get your facts correct Alex Salmond is not yet a Westminster MP the leader of the SNP in Westminster was on Question Time ANGUS ROBERTSON HE is the current leader at Westminster why was he not in the debate when all the others on the debate were standing for English parliament - not her it just gave her a platform to bang on about Scotland - does she realise the Barnet formula was derived for Scotland's fantastic financial package an age ago when Scotland had an abundance of North sea gas, and oil which as diminished tremendously yet they still get that fantastic deal of cash per capita per person - no wonder the SNP do well! Fre UNI free old home care as we pay for that privilege!

1) Alex Salmond will be the Leader in Westminster when he wins his seat as I said.
2) Scotland still pays in more than it gets out under the Barnett Formula
3) you only pay for Uni's and home care that down South because you let the Tories syphon off billions from the public purse into their own companies. The Scottish Government have blocked such privatisations up here.

 

[Seanjd]

I think SNP are far more to the left than that, a long way from the centre.

I would agree that they are centre left. What makes you think they're further left than that?

 

[Toffeelover]

It is mate, they all have 52" plasma tellies, drive Benz's and go on three foreign holidays a year dontcha know?

That said, a friend of my wife, who is a single mother of one and is reliant on social security for her income, has far more disposable income than we, with two kids and a mortgage, do.

Wouldn't swap with her though, and don't feel bitter about it.

So where is the father? one hears too much of single parents and not being able to manage, have to ask why the heck did you want a child?

 

[Blue 1]

Haha. Seriously though, don't you hate that argument?

I remember Jamie Oliver a few years back, "how can people be poor when they can afford flat screen TVs?"

Don't start me on that sanctimonious, pillow tongued, increasingly-well-fed, middle-class mockney bellwipe.

It's because they're on tick from somewhere like Brighthouse, or second hand, or their family has helped out, or any number of other reasons.

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

In which case your contention does not hold up, it is not social housing, but student accommodation.

It does, because my point is that this house was once social housing that has been removed from the social housing stock by right to buy and is now being used for a different and more expensive purpose.

 

[Blue 1]

So where is the father? one hears too much of single parents and not being able to manage, have to ask why the heck did you want a child?

He was a violent piece of **** who used to knock her about when she was pregnant and in front of the kid. I always hated the [Poor language removed]. Now lives on a site in Ireland somewhere, last I heard, and doesn't have anything to do with them. She was young and vulnerable when they had the kid, her old fella used to knock her about as well. She is best rid of him. She wanted a child because she was in love with him and wanted to make a family. Didn't work out.

 

[Toffeelover]

1) Alex Salmond will be the Leader in Westminster when he wins his seat as I said.
2) Scotland still pays in more than it gets out under the Barnett Formula
3) you only pay for Uni's and home care that down South because you let the Tories syphon off billions from the public purse into their own companies. The Scottish Government have blocked such privatisations up here.

Can you clarify, which companies are those exactly, surely if that was the case it would be corruption. Which privatisations did the Scottish Government block?

 

[Toffeelover]

I would agree that they are centre left. What makes you think they're further left than that?

Basically Sean the rhetoric, if what was said the case where would you position the Scotland Labour Party?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

If they want to become homeowners they should have to do it the same way the rest of us do.

That's a different argument though isn't it? I'm not sure many are saying that the scheme is unfair to those who aren't getting any welfare and want to buy a house. The argument is that it's harming the poorest.

you are assuming they arent going to want to buy a house elsewhere if the right to buy didnt exist,(therefore freeing up a socialhousing/council house for those in need) and the fact that right to buy often end up as private rented lets(ie people buy them so they can make a profit)

I'm afraid much of the UK economy is built upon rising house prices. I mean that's largely the whole point for buying a house isn't it? It just seems a bit peculiar that predominantly left leaning parties seem opposed to the concept of helping those on welfare to get on that gravy train. As I showed with my basic calculation, even if they sold the houses at 70% of market value they'd be able to build a good number of new houses to make up for any existing shortfall.

I think the point may be that the waiting list is growing at a much quicker rate than availability.

That may be the case, but again, isn't that a different issue? To use my simple example again. If right to buy doesn't exist, then the 100 existing homes are filled by 100 tenants, with the existing rent covering costs plus perhaps a little bit extra to go towards new builds, of which you may get one or two new homes for those on the waiting list.

If right to buy exists and those 20 people buy their homes, then you have the proceeds of those sales to spend on building around 14 new homes to help house those currently on the waiting list.

It seems to me that in order to build new homes you need 1) capital, and 2) land/planning permission to build. This doesn't help with the latter but surely does with the former?

What about when the owner sells it on? The home could end up in the hands of a private landlord. This happens often. The house I am moving into in July was a council house, bought under right-to-buy, and now owned by a private landlord.

We are paying £360 per week to live in a four bedroom terraced ex-council house in Liverpool. If it was still social housing then I suspect that it would be a lot cheaper, so more affordable housing is being taken away.

Surely it's irrelevant what they do with it? Are we going to try and control what folks do with their own legally bought property now? That's akin to saying that not only is someone on welfare not allowed to buy their own home, but they're also strictly forbidden to sell that home again should someone offer more money for it.

I thought we were supposed to be helping the poor here not getting snarky if they do alright for themselves?

 

[Seanjd]

Basically Sean the rhetoric, if what was said the case where would you position the Scotland Labour Party?

Probably centre