The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[Clint Planet]

Fairness is I'm afraid a rather infantile way of looking at it.

You've let yourself down, there.

 

[Tubey]

At the risk of repeating myself, I've said many times that there are a huge number of things that have influenced the labour market over the past decade, that has made it 'easier' for those with capital to make a lot of money but that has put pressure on wages. Fairness is I'm afraid a rather infantile way of looking at it.

Having cars automated for instance may be seen as unfair to a cabbie, but it's seen as quite fair by people who pay less for transport, or who don't get killed on the roads, or who don't worry about air pollution as much...

So please, enough already about fairness, you're not a kid trying to get sweets at the checkout.

I can't get my head around why you're not understanding the question, and 'answering' it with completely irrelevant guff.

I'll try and get it into one sentence:

Would a system where the rich and poor pay approximately the same as a proportion of wealth to reduce the deficit be fairer than a system where the poor pay a disproportionate amount compared to the rich?

It's a "yes or no", apolitical question about the concept of fairness. It isn't "infantile".

EDIT: Removed Twix comment as there's a risk the answer will involve looking at Twix's ffs

 

[The Esk]

all governments are slaves to the economy

I thought given you are a fan of Gladstone you might hold the view that politicians can determine economic success or not?

 

[1966efc]

Five years of austerity have had no impact on my personal finances but I'm able to perceive a lack of justice in what has happened to the less well off.

 

[Tubey]

I thought given you are a fan of Gladstone you might hold the view that politicians can determine economic success or not?

He wouldn't if he's a laissez-faire advocate, which I'm 99% sure he is. You know, government interference is fine, as long as it doesn't negatively affect the rich making money.

 

[Tubey]

Five years of austerity have had no impact on my personal finances but I'm able to perceive a lack of justice in what has happened to the less well off.

This is it for me too - in fact, I've seen a massive leap in living standards if anything, but that doesn't mean I can't look at what has happened objectively and think "bloody hell, that's not on that."

It's like seeing someone punch a fella in the face, then hand a mate next to them twenty quid - just because I wasn't the one being punched in the face doesn't mean I can't see it for what it is.

 

[Mrk]

I thought given you are a fan of Gladstone you might hold the view that politicians can determine economic success or not?

Politicians have an influence over the health of an economy, but they can't influence the natural economic cycle. Not even Gladstone could do that...

 

[Mrk]

He wouldn't if he's a laissez-faire advocate, which I'm 99% sure he is. You know, government interference is fine, as long as it doesn't negatively affect the rich making money.

(Un)fortunately you're 99% wrong.

 

[Tubey]

(Un)fortunately you're 99% wrong.

Good to hear!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Definition of fair:

treating people equally without favouritism or discrimination

That we're born in 2015 isn't fair for those from previous generations. That we're born British isn't fair to those born in many other nations around the world that are deprived of the freedoms and opportunities we seem to take for granted. That the vast majority of us here are men isn't fair to the women that still face discrimination around the world. That we're nearly all white men merely adds to that. That we're born speaking the global language of the world isn't fair to those in other countries who have to learn other languages because we're too bone idle to do so.

Seriously, what is this fairness you all speak of? As a British citizen we have so many cards stacked in our favour and very few of them would be considered fair to the majority of people on our planet. Tell them all about fairness.

 

[daylightrobber]

Politicians have an influence over the health of an economy, but they can't influence the natural economic cycle. Not even Gladstone could do that...

So we can finally put the Gordon Brown ruined the UK economy lie to bed then.

 

[rascal]

Well I'm not voting for the Tories now after Dave's latest blunder, the worst one yet. Easily on a par with Brown's 'bigoted woman' mistake in 2010.

 

[Mrk]

Not again! There are organisations who are experts in this field, such as The Joseph Rowntree Foundation, Banardos, PSE, Oxfam and even the UN. Please refer to their literature.

I'm well aware of those organisations - yet - you'll always hear different arguments and statistics from both sides to back up their arguments.

As I posted a few pages back, I don't understand why subjects like this have to be so black and white - I'm sure there are many people who are worse off now than they were before, but on the other hand, I'm also sure that there are people at the bottom who are better off.

 

[daylightrobber]

That we're born in 2015 isn't fair for those from previous generations. That we're born British isn't fair to those born in many other nations around the world that are deprived of the freedoms and opportunities we seem to take for granted. That the vast majority of us here are men isn't fair to the women that still face discrimination around the world. That we're nearly all white men merely adds to that. That we're born speaking the global language of the world isn't fair to those in other countries who have to learn other languages because we're too bone idle to do so.

Seriously, what is this fairness you all speak of? As a British citizen we have so many cards stacked in our favour and very few of them would be considered fair to the majority of people on our planet. Tell them all about fairness.

There's a difference between fairness of circumstance and fairness of treatment. One is luck the other is judgement.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Would a system where the rich and poor pay approximately the same as a proportion of wealth to reduce the deficit be fairer than a system where the poor pay a disproportionate amount compared to the rich?

I'd love a flat tax, yes, that would be the fairest system, and it's abhorrent that the rich have to pay significantly more of their income in taxation than the rest of society.