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The Ashes 2023

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Walken said:
The aussies are the best team in the world, their middle order is the 3 highest ranked batsman and they have a battery of 6ft 5 90mph plus bowlers. We are competing with them and have had our best 18 months of test cricket for a decade. Our side is decimated with injuries and all anyone can think of is to blame the captain and coach (who could both just rake in t20 cash) who didn't go to the correct school and are trying to keep the entire sport alive.
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OK, but you make it sound like we‘ve had no chance against the Aussies, when we have. We should have won the first test. And as for ’blaming Stokes’, well it was his crazy declaration that scuppered us there, Root was pulverising the bowling and instead of grinding the opposition down and getting to 450+, he goes and declares.

And in this one, 3 of our top 5 got to 40/50 odd and instead of at least one of them going big, they all get out playing ugly ‘20/20 last over’ shots. We completely blew a position of strength.

Decimated with injuries? Who isn’t playing who would be in the first XI? Wood maybe.
 
Cool_Blue said:
OK, but you make it sound like we‘ve had no chance against the Aussies, when we have. We should have won the first test. And as for ’blaming Stokes’, well it was his crazy declaration that scuppered us there, Root was pulverising the bowling and instead of grinding the opposition down and getting to 450+, he goes and declares.

And in this one, 3 of our top 5 got to 40/50 odd and instead of at least one of them going big, they all get out playing ugly ‘20/20 last over’ shots. We completely blew a position of strength.

Decimated with injuries? Who isn’t playing who would be in the first XI? Wood maybe.
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If he hadn't declared the opportunity to win the game would not have been there as the grinding down would have took us beyond 20 wickets timewise. Given yourself that time to win also gives he oppo the time to win, that's the risk.

3 of our top 5 regularly got out playing in there shells and a for a lot less than 40/30, controversial I know but at some point batsman have to make runs and play shots. Root who Stokes has apparently ruined is averaging more under Stokes than he did previously, as is Bairtstow and Pope. Again its about putting time in the game and making results possible. You want to play not to lose, great, there will be no ashes in 10 years time except for a 25 match T20 series but at least that chinless beaut Agnew will be happy.

Leach is out, a crucial element of the Stokes regime, Mahmood is just coming back, Anderson is just coming back, Robinson is just coming back, Stokes is out, Ali played 3 days injured, Archer is out, Pope looks injured, and Stokes is clearly in pain and most likely needs a knee surgery. You need a bit of luck with injuries if you are playing a side as good as this aussie one.

By problem isn't the critique of Stokes, its that there is quite clearly a certain type in English cricket who have been lining up to have a pop at him and this brand of test cricket, removing what he has done in the last 18 months, his intentions to boost test cricket in general and how good the aussies are.
 
samsonthedog1 said:
With the next one being in 3 days time I can see some changes regardless of the result today. Could see Wood coming in for Anderson, Ahmed/Ali for Robinson.
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I'm surprised Jimmy hasn't been more effective after he was so good in tough conditions in Pakistan, that being said his economy in the first innings was considerably better than everyone else's. I think Wood has to come in and don't want to drop Tongue so would agree with your choices.
 
Walken said:
I'm surprised Jimmy hasn't been more effective after he was so good in tough conditions in Pakistan, that being said his economy in the first innings was considerably better than everyone else's. I think Wood has to come in and don't want to drop Tongue so would agree with your choices.
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He just looks knackered to me. Yeah Tounge is cert for me, seen yesterday with Starc that raw pace can make a difference.
 

Walken said:
If he hadn't declared the opportunity to win the game would not have been there as the grinding down would have took us beyond 20 wickets timewise. Given yourself that time to win also gives he oppo the time to win, that's the risk.

3 of our top 5 regularly got out playing in there shells and a for a lot less than 40/30, controversial I know but at some point batsman have to make runs and play shots. Root who Stokes has apparently ruined is averaging more under Stokes than he did previously, as is Bairtstow and Pope. Again its about putting time in the game and making results possible. You want to play not to lose, great, there will be no ashes in 10 years time except for a 25 match T20 series but at least that chinless beaut Agnew will be happy.

Leach is out, a crucial element of the Stokes regime, Mahmood is just coming back, Anderson is just coming back, Robinson is just coming back, Stokes is out, Ali played 3 days injured, Archer is out, Pope looks injured, and Stokes is clearly in pain and most likely needs a knee surgery. You need a bit of luck with injuries if you are playing a side as good as this aussie one.

By problem isn't the critique of Stokes, its that there is quite clearly a certain type in English cricket who have been lining up to have a pop at him and this brand of test cricket, removing what he has done in the last 18 months, his intentions to boost test cricket in general and how good the aussies are.
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The declaration allowed for 4 overs bowling when they could have had 7 more overs batting. It was the wrong decision regardless of the outcome. But main reason the first test was lost was way too many dropped catches. Thats not a style thing, its just poor for test match level.

This test they've been thoroughly outplayed but the top order had a great chance to bat their way back into the game but threw it away in the first innings. 3 guys all getting out in the 40s and 50s to the hook shot will lose a test match. You can play aggressive cricket without hitting the ball in the area where the opposition have 3 men waiting for a catch.
 
ToffeeTim said:
The declaration allowed for 4 overs bowling when they could have had 7 more overs batting. It was the wrong decision regardless of the outcome. But main reason the first test was lost was way too many dropped catches. Thats not a style thing, its just poor for test match level.

This test they've been thoroughly outplayed but the top order had a great chance to bat their way back into the game but threw it away in the first innings. 3 guys all getting out in the 40s and 50s to the hook shot will lose a test match. You can play aggressive cricket without hitting the ball in the area where the opposition have 3 men waiting for a catch.
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So an overnight declaration would have been the right decision?
 
Walken said:
I'm surprised Jimmy hasn't been more effective after he was so good in tough conditions in Pakistan, that being said his economy in the first innings was considerably better than everyone else's. I think Wood has to come in and don't want to drop Tongue so would agree with your choices.
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Lack of rest between innings is starting to take its toll on the bowlers. They had to bowl 4 days in a row and their paces are down.
 
Walken said:
So an overnight declaration would have been the right decision?
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I wouldn't have declared personally but it wouldn't have taken any overs out of the game if they did it 10.45 on day 2. Taking the Aussies back onto the field day 2 for a few minutes wouldn't have been nice for them either.

I would have understood the declaration if Root was out but not while he was batting so well.
 

ToffeeTim said:
I wouldn't have declared personally but it wouldn't have taken any overs out of the game. I would have understood the declaration if Root was out but not while he was batting so well.
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It also reduces the wicket taking opportunities, the aussie batters have to start twice, one for a tricky period before close and then again in the morning. On top of that you put time in the game to take 20 wickets. We don't do that and we don't have time to take the wickets against a slow, very durable batting line.

As you state, take the catches/chances that we should have and that's a match winning decision.
 

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