The EU deal

[Cypher]

I think Corbyn's played it quite well, actually. He's put forward a different case for remain, rubbished the apocalyptic nonsense Cameron & co have been pushing, and refused to share a platform with them. His speech yesterday was very good.

I saw him use the terms we and us during the speech. He looked like he was reading an agreed statement that didn't put him into a position that had to technically lie but did enough to keep him MPs on side.

I think the whole reform argument is just so he can later go back to being against it after he declares it as un-reformable. I don't know if Owen Jones is aware of the strategy but I suspect he is being used.

If you think it can be reformed then watch this. The important bit is at 55 mins in.

 

[Cypher]

Interview with Trevor Phillips for channel 4, last year. Search Farage race discrimination laws and you'll find the quote reported by various newspapers.

(Phillips asked: “In Ukip land there would be no law against discrimination on the grounds of nationality. Would there be a law against discrimination on the grounds of race or colour?”

Farage replied: “No. We are colour-blind. We as a party are colour-blind.” He went on to say that concern about race discrimination “would probably have been valid” 40 years ago but that is no longer the case.)

UKIP is a right wing party. It believes in small government, low regulation and basically the government getting out of people's lives. It also believes that would be better for the working man because it would create jobs and innovation. Similar to Trump.

You may disagree with them but that's not a racist position to take.

 

[Blue 1]

UKIP is a right wing party. It believes in small government, low regulation and basically the government getting out of people's lives. It also believes that would be better for the working man because it would create jobs and innovation. Similar to Trump.

You may disagree with them but that's not a racist position to take.

"He went on to say that concern about race discrimination “would probably have been valid” 40 years ago but that is no longer the case." is an incredibly ignorant position to take, even if you can argue it's not out and out racist.

 

[Cypher]

"He went on to say that concern about race discrimination “would probably have been valid” 40 years ago but that is no longer the case." is an incredibly ignorant position to take, even if you can argue it's not out and out racist.

It's not ignorant. What he is saying is that discrimination law is needed to combat a society that is institutionally racist. When racism is institutional then minorities would find it impossible to get and stay in work or live a normal life. John Barnes played during a time that was institutionally racist. Delle Alli doesn't.

Today's society isn't institutionally racist. Regrettably there are still racists in society however discrimination law doesn't do anything to change that. All it does is add more administrative expense and hassle to employers which makes it difficult for companies to hire and fire people which then has a negative drag effect on growth and innovation.

Again he's not making a racist argument. He's making a libertarian argument which sees the individual as key. The complete opposite of racism.

 

[Blue 1]

It's not ignorant. What he is saying is that discrimination law is needed to combat a society that is institutionally racist. When racism is institutional then minorities would find it impossible to get and stay in work or live a normal life. John Barnes played during a time that was institutionally racist. Delle Alli doesn't.

Today's society isn't institutionally racist. Regrettably there are still racists in society however discrimination law doesn't do anything to change that. All it does is add more administrative expense and hassle to employers which makes it difficult for companies to hire and fire people which then has a negative drag effect on growth and innovation.

Again he's not making a racist argument. He's making a libertarian argument which sees the individual as key. The complete opposite of racism.

OK m9.

 

[SNova]

Interview with Trevor Phillips for channel 4, last year. Search Farage race discrimination laws and you'll find the quote reported by various newspapers.

(Phillips asked: “In Ukip land there would be no law against discrimination on the grounds of nationality. Would there be a law against discrimination on the grounds of race or colour?”

Farage replied: “No. We are colour-blind. We as a party are colour-blind.” He went on to say that concern about race discrimination “would probably have been valid” 40 years ago but that is no longer the case.)

Oh right so he didn't say what you quoted.

 

[Cypher]

OK m9.

How is society institutionally racist. If someone acts in a racist way then they aren't celebrated but rather shunned.

Stop talking nonsense.

 

[Allezfan]

Oh right so he didn't say what you quoted.

I said if he was in charge, he'd remove the laws that prevent company's from advertising for whites only or black only.

And that that kind of statement was why he was often viewed as racist.

I don't see how replying to the question 'In Ukip land, Would there be a law against discrimination on the grounds of race or colour?' with 'no' is not exactly what I said.

Please explain to me why you think I'm lying.

 

[Cypher]

I said if he was in charge, he'd remove the laws that prevent company's from advertising for whites only or black only.

And that that kind of statement was why he was often viewed as racist.

I don't see how replying to the question 'In Ukip land, Would there be a law against discrimination on the grounds of race or colour?' with 'no' is not exactly what I said.

Please explain to me why you think I'm lying.

He was viewed as racist because he was branded a racist by the media because they didn't want to engage with him on the issues.

 

[SNova]

EU citizens who are not eligible to vote in this month’s referendum have been sent polling cards and postal votes due to a software error, the Electoral Commission has admitted.

The Commission admitted it did not yet know how many votes had been issued in error, and to add further embarrassment to the situation also said Britons living abroad who are eligible to vote had received incorrect information on how to return their postal votes...

^^ worrying development of a stitch up.

I said if he was in charge, he'd remove the laws that prevent company's from advertising for whites only or black only.

And that that kind of statement was why he was often viewed as racist.

I don't see how replying to the question 'In Ukip land, Would there be a law against discrimination on the grounds of race or colour?' with 'no' is not exactly what I said.

Please explain to me why you think I'm lying.

You had quotation marks so I thought you'd implied he actually said that. He's not saying he'd be comfortable with people hiring based on skin colour, he's saying he doesn't believe that the law Is necessary any longer.

This is all rather off topic anyway.

 

[Allezfan]

He was viewed as racist because he was branded a racist by the media because they didn't want to engage with him on the issues.

I don't think ukip is a racist party by and large. But I think removing the law that prevents employees from saying 'blacks only, whites need not apply' or vice versa is racist. That in my mind is a racist policy that they are proposing in that it legalises racial discrimination.

Again, I don't think that means that every policy ukip proposes is racist and it certainly shouldn't be used to attack ukip's other policies by association.

I'm all for immigration reform and reduction of foreign aid for instance so I obviously don't think those are racist.

I was just saying those allegations didn't come out of nowhere.

 

[Allezfan]

You had quotation marks so I thought you'd implied he actually said that. He's not saying he'd be comfortable with people hiring based on skin colour, he's saying he doesn't believe that the law Is necessary any longer.

This is all rather off topic anyway.

I said things like 'that'. The word like means similar in tone but not word by word. I couldn't remember the exact quote.

And yes it is off topic, I'll leave it there. I just dislike being accused of arguing in bad faith when I'm not.

 

[Cypher]

I don't think ukip is a racist party by and large. But I think removing the law that prevents employees from saying 'blacks only, whites need not apply' or vice versa is racist. That in my mind is a racist policy that they are proposing in that it legalises racial discrimination.

Again, I don't think that means that every policy ukip proposes is racist and it certainly shouldn't be used to attack ukip's other policies by association.

I'm all for immigration reform and reduction of foreign aid for instance so I obviously don't think those are racist.

I was just saying those allegations didn't come out of nowhere.

That's a strange argument.

Basically you are saying that someone who doesn't do anything to stop something that has little to no likelihood of happening is as guilty of the thing that the perpetrator who in theory would have been. Even when doing so would result in real cost to them.

I hope St Peter at the Pearly Gates isn't as tough as you are.

 

[Blue 1]

How is society institutionally racist. If someone acts in a racist way then they aren't celebrated but shunned.

Stop talking nonsense.

Try applying for a job with an African name. Have a look at the figures for stop-and-search. Look at how minorities are under-represented in jobs such as police, judges, doctors, journalists, editors and in government, and over-represented in prison. Look at the disparity in sentences for similar crimes to white people.

We are getting off topic here though.

 

[Cypher]

Try applying for a job with an African name. Have a look at the figures for stop-and-search. Look at how minorities are under-represented in jobs such as police, judges, doctors, journalists, editors and in government.

Maybe they aren't as well qualified or suitable for the job. Jewish, Chinese and Indian people seem to have no problem. However now this is getting off topic.

Apart from the fact that people who think like you are in control of the undemocratic EU.