The EU deal

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hullefc said:
The further privatisation of the NHS will happen whether the UK is in the EU or not.

"Bowsher said he had concluded that the deal poses “a real and serious risk” to future UK government decision making regarding the NHS.

“We consider that the solution to the problems TTIP poses to the NHS – and which is likely to provide the greatest protection – is for the NHS to be excluded from the agreement by way of a blanket exception contained within the main text of TTIP,” Bowsher said".

Boris Johnson, Gove, Ian Duncan Smith and all the other Tories that want out, have not once shouted for the NHS to be exempt from TTIP. Which would be a sign that they wanted the UK to have sovereignty/determine the future, of the NHS by the UK parliament. If the UK leaves the EU, those Tories will push for the further privatisation of the NHS, and wouldn't give a second thought of offering the further privatisation of the NHS - opening up the health 'market' - to US health companies in any trade negotiations with the US, thereby giving up sovereignty or the UK parliament to determine the future direction of health care in this country.

Those same Tories shouted the loudest for the UK financial services to be exempt from EU regulations. But have not said a dickie bird about the NHS exemption.

It goes without saying that if the UK remains in the EU, and TTIP is signed, Cameron will quicken the pace for the further privatisation of the NHS and use the TTIP agreement to get his wish for a privatised health care system in this country.

TTIP is the biggest threat at the moment to UK 'sovereignty' but any trade deal with another country always runs the risk of having elements of losing some form of 'sovereignty'. One of the parts in the UK's trade agreement with China, was to allow more Chinese nationals into the UK by relaxing visa restrictions.

Trade agreements are a negotiation. If the UK wants something for a section of the economy, whether in the EU or not, they will offer 'sweeteners' and that could be anything, including giving up the sovereign right to control parts of the UK economy or industries, intelectual rights, environmental issues, food safety etc..

The UK government will not impose sanctions on Chinese steel, and will use the EU/free trade as the excuse, because the Chinese are investing £billions in the UK. They will not 'protect' the UK Steel industry because it doesn't suit them. Gove, Johnson, Duncan Smith - the so called champions of 'the UK should be able to decide its own future without interference for others', have not said anything about losing the Steel industry. They are all in agreement with Cameron concerning this element of the UK economy - let it go to the wall. They all sing with one voice for the 'protection' of the UK financial sector against those 'unelected EU bureaucrats'.

The big landowners in the UK love the EU and the Common Agricultural Policy as it boosts their coffers. If the UK leaves the EU they will demand 'compensation' for a loss of 'earnings' which can only come from the UK taxpayer.

As people have pointed out the great transformation of Northern Cities have come about by EU money. And not money from the UK treasury, which wouldn't and still doesn't give enough money to the North. If the UK leaves the EU the treasury will not give the North the the same amount of money that the EU gives.

Whether the UK stays in the EU or leaves will not stop the rich looking after their interests at the expense of the working class. And that includes giving up 'sovereignty' of anything as long as it looks after their interests.

I, like thousands of other UK nationals, will be at the Euros - I wonder if that is why Cameron has chosen that date so a lot of those likely to vote to leave - a generalisation I know - will be out of the country and/or be gripped by Euro 'fever'. The vote didn't have to be in June but Cameron chose that date to boost his chances of winning the vote. If he loses there will be a general election as he will be a dead man walking.

If I get my vote I'll be voting to leave.
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Had to skim read that but the idea that companies can claim compensation for not making enough profit from our health is terrifying. Got to hope Cameron's real reason for wanting to remain in will be more exposed as part of the debate.
Do you not think our government will find a way to buy into the principles of TTIP regardless of this vote? To be honest if I seriously believed it was a way of challenging this deal then I'd probably switch my vote.
 

Seems like a bit has to be sorted before the vote takes place:

Once a deal is done, the European Union Referendum Act 2015 makes clear that three processes need to take place before the referendum can be held.

First, a swathe of secondary legislation needs to be passed through Parliament, minor bits of law that fill in the gaps left blank by the Act.

Referendum period
These would set things like the date of the referendum, the length of the statutory "referendum period", and various rules about the administration of the poll.

Now, getting these so-called statutory instruments through Parliament can be complicated and involve various committees sitting before a decision is made.

As a rule of thumb, they normally take six weeks to become law. But, as ever, there is flexibility and if MPs, peers and officials pull their fingers out, that timescale can be crunched down to a couple of weeks, according to the House of Commons library.

Second, there needs to be a period of time allowed for the Electoral Commission to choose which two organisations will officially campaign for Remain and Leave and receive public funding to do so.

According to existing electoral law, this so-called "designation period" must last six weeks.

But the Referendum Act actually allows the government to set the start date and the duration of the period. So that six weeks could be shortened, although the Electoral Commission might resist that.

And third, there must be a so-called referendum period - when the formal campaign takes place and various spending rules are in force - that must last a minimum of 10 weeks. That is one of the few timescales in the whole process that is fixed.
 

peteblue said:
He wanted all FTSE 100 to sign, and even strong-arming them hasn't worked. The view from the business community is that leaving will have almost no effect......another scare tactic lost.........
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uncertainty has a big effect doesnt it? so the actual referendum may have a detrimental effect but not the actual result lol
 
Oh here's a good one. You can take the girl out of the Stasi
http://www.dw.com/en/german-government-to-use-trojan-spyware-to-monitor-citizens/a-19066629

A spokesman for the German interior ministry announced on Monday that the government had approved the usage of Trojans to monitor suspected citizens.

The interior ministry spokesman defended the government's decision, saying "basically we now have the skills in an area where we did not have this kind of skill." The program was already endorsed by members of the government in autumn 2015, the ministry said.

Trojans are software programs, also known as malware, specially designed to get into users' computers. They are often used by hackers and thieves to gain access to somebody else's data.

In order to use the malware, government officials will have to get a court order, allowing authorities to hack into a citizen's system.


The new software will be able to monitor users' activities in real time

The approval will help officials get access to the suspect's personal computer, laptop and smartphone. Once the spyware installs itself on the suspect's device, it can skim data on the computer's hard drive and monitor ongoing chats and conversations.

Members of the Green party protested the launching of the Trojan, with the party's deputy head Konstantin von Notz saying, "We do understand the needs of security officials, but still, in a country under the rule of law, the means don't justify the end."

Germany-based hacker association Chaos Computer Club (CCC) also expressed doubts with the government's decision. Its spokesman, Frank Rieger, told German radio Deutschlandfunk that the technical capabilities of the software needed to be toned down. "It's almost like you're watching people think, if you're reading as they type," Rieger said.

According to a 2008 decision by the German Constitutional Court, remote access to a citizen's computer is permissible only if there is life-threatening danger or suspicion of criminal activity against the state.
 
dandydan said:
Oh here's a good one. You can take the girl out of the Stasi
http://www.dw.com/en/german-government-to-use-trojan-spyware-to-monitor-citizens/a-19066629

A spokesman for the German interior ministry announced on Monday that the government had approved the usage of Trojans to monitor suspected citizens.

The interior ministry spokesman defended the government's decision, saying "basically we now have the skills in an area where we did not have this kind of skill." The program was already endorsed by members of the government in autumn 2015, the ministry said.

Trojans are software programs, also known as malware, specially designed to get into users' computers. They are often used by hackers and thieves to gain access to somebody else's data.

In order to use the malware, government officials will have to get a court order, allowing authorities to hack into a citizen's system.


The new software will be able to monitor users' activities in real time

The approval will help officials get access to the suspect's personal computer, laptop and smartphone. Once the spyware installs itself on the suspect's device, it can skim data on the computer's hard drive and monitor ongoing chats and conversations.

Members of the Green party protested the launching of the Trojan, with the party's deputy head Konstantin von Notz saying, "We do understand the needs of security officials, but still, in a country under the rule of law, the means don't justify the end."

Germany-based hacker association Chaos Computer Club (CCC) also expressed doubts with the government's decision. Its spokesman, Frank Rieger, told German radio Deutschlandfunk that the technical capabilities of the software needed to be toned down. "It's almost like you're watching people think, if you're reading as they type," Rieger said.

According to a 2008 decision by the German Constitutional Court, remote access to a citizen's computer is permissible only if there is life-threatening danger or suspicion of criminal activity against the state.
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Yet more character assassination.

@The Esk I'm seeing a common theme in these right wing haters.
 


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