The Everton Board Thread 2015/16 [ Not takeover related ]

[marty mcfly]

Yes mate, but Enron

There's far more examples than just Enron.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Agreed, there should be disclosure in the accounts. But in the completely unlikely alleged event that a director chose not to disclose a connection with a BVI company , how far would the auditors duties go in investigating the BVI entity, and how far would they get with an investigation of a BVI Co's ownership in practice anyway. In which case the auditors would not be compliciit ?

They would report it as an audit finding. We had an auditor report a project we did because we kept a ledger in excel and not quickbooks. (Although that's an exception)

 

[The Esk]

Agreed, there should be disclosure in the accounts. But in the completely unlikely alleged event that a director chose not to disclose a connection with a BVI company , how far would the auditors duties go in investigating the BVI entity, and how far would they get with an investigation of a BVI Co's ownership in practice anyway. In which case the auditors would not be compliciit ?

The auditors would either (i) refuse to sign off the accounts (ii) put a substantial warning in the accounts or (iii) in the event of believing there were serious criminal activities apply to the BVI Courts for further disclosure.

 

[The Esk]

Yes mate, but Enron

With respect the sums involved with Enron were of a magnitude somewhat greater than a few million dollars washed through the BVI. Why would Deloittes for example do such a thing for so little reward?

 

[Chang Elephant]

They would report it as an audit finding. We had an auditor report a project we did because we kept a ledger in excel and not quickbooks. (Although that's an exception)

Yeah, but what are they reporting, there's no evidence linking the director to the BVI company, the director hasn't raised it as an issue, and given they can't obtain BVI co ownership details anyway. If there were any wrongdoing it would be board related, without audit complicity

 

[RaleighBlue]

Re: Conspiracy Theories

I know it seems like a lot of money goes through a football club, but in the grand scheme of business these clubs are absolutely tiny. People like Earl and Green almost certainly have better ways to squeeze a few million dollars out of their money rather than illegally cooking the books for a 'poorish' Prem side.

It's small potatoes, and unlikely to be worth the risk.

Edit:
Our board is incompetent, but I don't think they're evil (or any more evil than most boards).

 

[marty mcfly]

I think the thing is it doesn't have to be illegal to be wrong. I don't think what they are doing is illegal but it does smell a little and I'm not surprised they don't want the fans knowing the details.

 

[mikewex]

OK, have to confess I'm a little baffled by the weight that's being placed in tonights revelations. I can't quite see what they are saying they are revealing. I've read it a couple of times now, and not getting it.

First page of the aggregated post, shows the charge (and its worth noting that they manage to confuse charge and loan repeatedly through this) is in the name of JG Funding signed by its director, Jonathon McMorrow, and witnessed (and again they misunderstand the witnessing bit over and over again, a witness is not "signing off on a loan") by his sister who works as an accountant. There is then some info on another charge held by JG Funding, presumably for another loan. Not sure of the relevance of a construction company loan in Ireland to Everton, but however.

Second page can be summed up as linking McMorrow to his sister to her husband. And Irish dancing. Not sure what the Irish dancing relevance is, would have thought the fact McMorrow had been a tax advisor with PWC was more significant, but however. Tully construction, the company that JG Funding has also lent money to is brought up again, although on the previous page they had already made it obvious it was a family company.

Third page. This is where the questions start getting put starting with:
"So why has JM sister signed off the charge on his behalf" Because she hasn't? He signed it, she witnessed that he signed it. I've witnessed any number of documents over the years, including loans. Doesn't mean I have any significance in them.

"A multimillion pound loan has been taken out by EFC and has been signed off by an ex-Riverdance dancer and his sister. Unbelievable isn't it?" Yes. Its been signed off by an ex-PWC tax advisor and 7-8 year employee of James Grant Group whose job it is to run the sports financing division of JGG, and witnessed by his sister.

And speaking of which, James Grant group is jointly owned by management and a company called Metric Capital Management. MCM is a private capital company that runs investment funds that invest in, amongst other things, Liquidity facilities and liquidity/rescue facilities, in other words medium and high risk debt provision. MCM was created by people from a number of companies, but mainly Terra Firma (a venture capitalist) and UBS. MCM bought JGG in October 2014. JG Funding the started issuing loans this year.

Then page 4: "Now looking at West Ham, They've used Vibrec, on 19th August they borrowed against 16/17 TV revenue from JG Funding. Who has signed it? McMorrow and McPadden" It all points back to one thing."

Yes, that the new kid on the block gained another client. That WatchedToffee still doesn't understand the 16/17 revenue system (this will actually come due summer 2015 as its the Basic fund they are lending against, which is paid at the start of the year),that WT doesn't undersand witnesses and that McM as probably on holidays back in Ireland around the 10th to 19th....

"There is an investment vehicle called Taveta Investments. Money goes through that. A check on companies house names a current director as Karren Brady of West Ham. She is an associate of PG"

And what in the name of all thats holy does Taveta Investments have to do with anything? Its never mentioned anywhere else in the article, its not connected to McMorrow, JGG, or MCM. It is the parent company of a number of retail companies (primarily Arcadia). Its not even BVI IoM or Irish like all the other mentioned companies, its Guernsey. Its only seeming reason for being here is form a very distant connection between WHU and Green.


To be honest, to me the whole breakout seems like pretty conclusive proof that PG isn't anything to do with any of the loans (nor indeed Earl), but their twitter feed is full of people discussing the bomb shell. What am I missing here?

 

[Chang Elephant]

The auditors would either (i) refuse to sign off the accounts (ii) put a substantial warning in the accounts or (iii) in the event of believing there were serious criminal activities apply to the BVI Courts for further disclosure.

They would need something more in the way of evidence before they either acted appropriately or became complicit. In a hypothetical case where a director is also involved with a BVI Co, the auditors just wouldn't be an issue as they have nothing to start with.

 

[marty mcfly]

OK, have to confess I'm a little baffled by the weight that's being placed in tonights revelations. I can't quite see what they are saying they are revealing. I've read it a couple of times now, and not getting it.

First page of the aggregated post, shows the charge (and its worth noting that they manage to confuse charge and loan repeatedly through this) is in the name of JG Funding signed by its director, Jonathon McMorrow, and witnessed (and again they misunderstand the witnessing bit over and over again, a witness is not "signing off on a loan") by his sister who works as an accountant. There is then some info on another charge held by JG Funding, presumably for another loan. Not sure of the relevance of a construction company loan in Ireland to Everton, but however.

Second page can be summed up as linking McMorrow to his sister to her husband. And Irish dancing. Not sure what the Irish dancing relevance is, would have thought the fact McMorrow had been a tax advisor with PWC was more significant, but however. Tully construction, the company that JG Funding has also lent money to is brought up again, although on the previous page they had already made it obvious it was a family company.

Third page. This is where the questions start getting put starting with:
"So why has JM sister signed off the charge on his behalf" Because she hasn't? He signed it, she witnessed that he signed it. I've witnessed any number of documents over the years, including loans. Doesn't mean I have any significance in them.

"A multimillion pound loan has been taken out by EFC and has been signed off by an ex-Riverdance dancer and his sister. Unbelievable isn't it?" Yes. Its been signed off by an ex-PWC tax advisor and 7-8 year employee of James Grant Group whose job it is to run the sports financing division of JGG, and witnessed by his sister.

And speaking of which, James Grant group is jointly owned by management and a company called Metric Capital Management. MCM is a private capital company that runs investment funds that invest in, amongst other things, Liquidity facilities and liquidity/rescue facilities, in other words medium and high risk debt provision. MCM was created by people from a number of companies, but mainly Terra Firma (a venture capitalist) and UBS. MCM bought JGG in October 2014. JG Funding the started issuing loans this year.

Then page 4: "Now looking at West Ham, They've used Vibrec, on 19th August they borrowed against 16/17 TV revenue from JG Funding. Who has signed it? McMorrow and McPadden" It all points back to one thing."

Yes, that the new kid on the block gained another client. That WatchedToffee still doesn't understand the 16/17 revenue system (this will actually come due summer 2015 as its the Basic fund they are lending against, which is paid at the start of the year),that WT doesn't undersand witnesses and that McM as probably on holidays back in Ireland around the 10th to 19th....

"There is an investment vehicle called Taveta Investments. Money goes through that. A check on companies house names a current director as Karren Brady of West Ham. She is an associate of PG"

And what in the name of all thats holy does Taveta Investments have to do with anything? Its never mentioned anywhere else in the article, its not connected to McMorrow, JGG, or MCM. It is the parent company of a number of retail companies (primarily Arcadia). Its not even BVI IoM or Irish like all the other mentioned companies, its Guernsey. Its only seeming reason for being here is form a very distant connection between WHU and Green.


To be honest, to me the whole breakout seems like pretty conclusive proof that PG isn't anything to do with any of the loans (nor indeed Earl), but their twitter feed is full of people discussing the bomb shell. What am I missing here?

I think it's the fact that the same people signing off on this JG Funding which looks like a front for a wealthy investor which they guess to be Taveta are also signing off on the West Ham loans and Karen Brady is a director of West Ham and an associate of Green. Taveta is owned by Green. It does seem a little small fry to be fair for Green to go to this amount of hassle but you never know.

 

[SerenityNigh]

They would need something more in the way of evidence before they either acted appropriately or became complicit. In a hypothetical case where a director is also involved with a BVI Co, the auditors just wouldn't be an issue as they have nothing to start with.

Auditors don't need that kind of evidence. It works the other way--they require proper evidence to complete their report and make the appropriate notes when the supplied evidence is incomplete.

 

[peteblue]

Wow, i thought it was getting heated in the Commies thread, you lads have outdone yourselves........

 

[Carlito]

With the upcoming Sky money increase, Martinez could have up to £8m to spend next summer.

Exciting times ahead.

 

[hibbo'sclass]

OK, have to confess I'm a little baffled by the weight that's being placed in tonights revelations. I can't quite see what they are saying they are revealing. I've read it a couple of times now, and not getting it.

First page of the aggregated post, shows the charge (and its worth noting that they manage to confuse charge and loan repeatedly through this) is in the name of JG Funding signed by its director, Jonathon McMorrow, and witnessed (and again they misunderstand the witnessing bit over and over again, a witness is not "signing off on a loan") by his sister who works as an accountant. There is then some info on another charge held by JG Funding, presumably for another loan. Not sure of the relevance of a construction company loan in Ireland to Everton, but however.

Second page can be summed up as linking McMorrow to his sister to her husband. And Irish dancing. Not sure what the Irish dancing relevance is, would have thought the fact McMorrow had been a tax advisor with PWC was more significant, but however. Tully construction, the company that JG Funding has also lent money to is brought up again, although on the previous page they had already made it obvious it was a family company.

Third page. This is where the questions start getting put starting with:
"So why has JM sister signed off the charge on his behalf" Because she hasn't? He signed it, she witnessed that he signed it. I've witnessed any number of documents over the years, including loans. Doesn't mean I have any significance in them.

"A multimillion pound loan has been taken out by EFC and has been signed off by an ex-Riverdance dancer and his sister. Unbelievable isn't it?" Yes. Its been signed off by an ex-PWC tax advisor and 7-8 year employee of James Grant Group whose job it is to run the sports financing division of JGG, and witnessed by his sister.

And speaking of which, James Grant group is jointly owned by management and a company called Metric Capital Management. MCM is a private capital company that runs investment funds that invest in, amongst other things, Liquidity facilities and liquidity/rescue facilities, in other words medium and high risk debt provision. MCM was created by people from a number of companies, but mainly Terra Firma (a venture capitalist) and UBS. MCM bought JGG in October 2014. JG Funding the started issuing loans this year.

Then page 4: "Now looking at West Ham, They've used Vibrec, on 19th August they borrowed against 16/17 TV revenue from JG Funding. Who has signed it? McMorrow and McPadden" It all points back to one thing."

Yes, that the new kid on the block gained another client. That WatchedToffee still doesn't understand the 16/17 revenue system (this will actually come due summer 2015 as its the Basic fund they are lending against, which is paid at the start of the year),that WT doesn't undersand witnesses and that McM as probably on holidays back in Ireland around the 10th to 19th....

"There is an investment vehicle called Taveta Investments. Money goes through that. A check on companies house names a current director as Karren Brady of West Ham. She is an associate of PG"

And what in the name of all thats holy does Taveta Investments have to do with anything? Its never mentioned anywhere else in the article, its not connected to McMorrow, JGG, or MCM. It is the parent company of a number of retail companies (primarily Arcadia). Its not even BVI IoM or Irish like all the other mentioned companies, its Guernsey. Its only seeming reason for being here is form a very distant connection between WHU and Green.


To be honest, to me the whole breakout seems like pretty conclusive proof that PG isn't anything to do with any of the loans (nor indeed Earl), but their twitter feed is full of people discussing the bomb shell. What am I missing here?

There is no bombshell, I have responded to watchedtoffee using my own name and even my company name, and the only interesting point I brought up was the amendment of the articles of association re-instating the AGM procedure.

At one point there was a post about who are Everton Investments Limited, which I responded to by pointing out that both EIL and Goodison Park Stadium Limited had to be set up for the season ticket loan and were 100% subsidiaries of EFC Limited.

I am all for getting information in the public domain, but please let it be an aid to informed decision making, not unfounded rumour.speculation and innuendo.

I do not think the finances of the club have been particularly well managed and I believe @the esk mentioned in an earlier post, the other operating costs would make an interesting read, but I doubt if they will see the light of day

I personally do not believe that the board will or indeed can take us any further, and agree with the esk that capital needs to be raised, but given that neither Messrs Kenwright or Woods have the wherewithal and Mr Earl is not inclined to invest further, then a rights issue of shares is off the table, so we are back to a take-over.

How likely is this -I don't know.

 

[marty mcfly]

With the upcoming Sky money increase, Martinez could have up to £8m to spend next summer.

Exciting times ahead.

I'm sure we will still be paying of the Deulofeu, Lennon, Mori and Lukaku transfers so I wouldn't get your hopes up.