The Everton Board Thread (Inc. Bill Kenwright / Blue Union)

[kenada_blue]

I'd agree with what you say in some senses because certain aspects, such as outsourcing, are subjective. The club was losing £750,000 before we went with JJB and eventually brought Kitbag in so now we are £3.75m better off. How you view that depends on your sensibilities. For me the fact we were actually losing money on that aspect is criminal. I've also made my thoughts on that deal clear.

The comparison of our debt to soft debt carried by the teams mentioned hghlights one thing clearly for me. The owners of each of these clubs are willing and able to provide finances to grow or improve that club. They also add value as the cost of that finance would have to be borne by their clubs otherwise.

Our board has provided no finance whatsoever at any point in the entirety of their reign. Not a pound, as admitted by by Elstone recently. Throw in the sale of all our assets bar the one's that can run and I can't see how anybody is still in a position to defend this board. They have effectively asset stripped (Admitted that this was the business plan and was unsustainable at the DK enquiry by Elstone) to maintain control due to thier own ineptitude and poor decisionmaking.

Issues about the Vibrac loan, Phillip Green and everything else are secondary to the reaL ISSUE that without David Moyes being an absolute ninja in his transfer dealings and the luck of finding the greatest English player, potentially of all time, then this board would have taken us into oblivion. That's a facht that stevie wonder could see.

In a nut shell. Close thread.

 

[steken1]

Some excerpts from the most recent KEIOC article on the Kitbag deal. Asks some very pertinent questions IMO and adds a bit of comparison although clearly not all are fair or equal.

Merchandise Sales revenue is more difficult to determine as usually only the total commercial income is revealed in clubs accounts. One club that does itemise this is Spurs, last year receiving £10m from merchandise sales. Following repeated losses, Everton outsourced this income stream in 2007 and their current outsourcing partner, Kitbag, pay Everton up to £3m per annum to control every aspect of our merchandise operation. For Everton this was an ideal solution, no need to invest in a complete overhaul of the commercial operation, no need to run a series of shops or operate an e-commerce website, no staff, no stock, in fact no costs whatsoever and best of all the payment goes straight to the bottom line, it's pure profit.

Since outsourcing their retail and catering operations Everton's total commercial income has seen a £5m improvement over the last five years; in 2007 it was £7m, 2008 £9m, 2009 £9m, 2010 £10m and £12m in 2011. By comparison Aston Villa has seen an £11m increase [£6m in 2007, £11m in 2008, £12m in 2009, £14m in 2010 and £17m in 2011] and Tottenham Hotspur a £20m increase since 2006 whilst Liverpool, despite something of a financial and footballing odyssey in recent years, has seen their commercial revenues increase by £34m [£43m in 2007, £51m 2008, £60m in 2009, £62m in 2010 and £77m in 2011] with at least an additional £13m to come from their Warrior kit supply deal in 2012, which will astonishingly take their commercial income alone past Everton's total turnover.

The growth of these kit supply deals and the importance given to them, by both clubs and manufacturers, cannot be underestimated... Adidas and Nike account for a massive 44% of the total spend on these supply deals yet remarkably Everton received nothing when they recently switched suppliers from Le Coq Sportif to Nike; nothing in an era where their peers in the premiership are receiving record deals, nothing in an era when the manufacturers are spending hundreds of millions with clubs to secure these deals, nothing in the era of outsourcing our business to Kitbag.

Everton's fans and shareholders were led to believe that the Kitbag deal consisted of running the retail operation which had previously haemorrhaged money and required urgent attention by 2006. We were told that the ten year £32m deal related to the operation of the shops and the online business. We're concerned over Kitbags actual role in Everton's kit supply agreement and we're concerned over what the £7m sponsorship, advertising and merchandising revenue figure in Everton's accounts is comprised of.

We would like to ask the board some pertinent questions on this subject; for example, have we forfeited the right to negotiate an independent kit supply agreement over to Kitbag as part of the ten year deal? Why, in an era of multi-million pound deals, have Everton received nothing from one of the world's major kit manufacturers who are one of the leading proponents of making payments to secure kit supply agreements? Are Kitbag in effect in receipt of these manufacturers' payments, making Everton's ten year agreement effectively self-financing for Kitbag thereby making them the recipients of all revenue from the clubs retail operations? If this is not the case why has the Everton brand been so dramatically undersold in terms of the kit supply agreement?

 

[Moomin]

Koff! they made some belters. Operation Wolf, Rainbow Island, all those batman, Robocop, effin darkman games...gold

No way, Rainbow Islands was a good game if you were 6 or under, or a girl.

All the other games had potential to be greats but were the same crap from Ocean.

Big name games from tv and film, but **** games. Like highlander, the Conan game was much better! You could spin around and chop the other fella's head off.

 

[Neiler]

Some excerpts from the most recent KEIOC article on the Kitbag deal. Asks some very pertinent questions IMO and adds a bit of comparison although clearly not all are fair or equal.

Merchandise Sales revenue is more difficult to determine as usually only the total commercial income is revealed in clubs accounts. One club that does itemise this is Spurs, last year receiving £10m from merchandise sales. Following repeated losses, Everton outsourced this income stream in 2007 and their current outsourcing partner, Kitbag, pay Everton up to £3m per annum to control every aspect of our merchandise operation. For Everton this was an ideal solution, no need to invest in a complete overhaul of the commercial operation, no need to run a series of shops or operate an e-commerce website, no staff, no stock, in fact no costs whatsoever and best of all the payment goes straight to the bottom line, it's pure profit.

Since outsourcing their retail and catering operations Everton's total commercial income has seen a £5m improvement over the last five years; in 2007 it was £7m, 2008 £9m, 2009 £9m, 2010 £10m and £12m in 2011. By comparison Aston Villa has seen an £11m increase [£6m in 2007, £11m in 2008, £12m in 2009, £14m in 2010 and £17m in 2011] and Tottenham Hotspur a £20m increase since 2006 whilst Liverpool, despite something of a financial and footballing odyssey in recent years, has seen their commercial revenues increase by £34m [£43m in 2007, £51m 2008, £60m in 2009, £62m in 2010 and £77m in 2011] with at least an additional £13m to come from their Warrior kit supply deal in 2012, which will astonishingly take their commercial income alone past Everton's total turnover.

The growth of these kit supply deals and the importance given to them, by both clubs and manufacturers, cannot be underestimated... Adidas and Nike account for a massive 44% of the total spend on these supply deals yet remarkably Everton received nothing when they recently switched suppliers from Le Coq Sportif to Nike; nothing in an era where their peers in the premiership are receiving record deals, nothing in an era when the manufacturers are spending hundreds of millions with clubs to secure these deals, nothing in the era of outsourcing our business to Kitbag.

Everton's fans and shareholders were led to believe that the Kitbag deal consisted of running the retail operation which had previously haemorrhaged money and required urgent attention by 2006. We were told that the ten year £32m deal related to the operation of the shops and the online business. We're concerned over Kitbags actual role in Everton's kit supply agreement and we're concerned over what the £7m sponsorship, advertising and merchandising revenue figure in Everton's accounts is comprised of.

We would like to ask the board some pertinent questions on this subject; for example, have we forfeited the right to negotiate an independent kit supply agreement over to Kitbag as part of the ten year deal? Why, in an era of multi-million pound deals, have Everton received nothing from one of the world's major kit manufacturers who are one of the leading proponents of making payments to secure kit supply agreements? Are Kitbag in effect in receipt of these manufacturers' payments, making Everton's ten year agreement effectively self-financing for Kitbag thereby making them the recipients of all revenue from the clubs retail operations? If this is not the case why has the Everton brand been so dramatically undersold in terms of the kit supply agreement?

Fair play to them, they are the questions i asked five mins after there last poor artictle, at least they seem to more active in trolling forums etc and trying to come up with responses. TBH the above isnt a great comeback - but will be food and drink for those who like them.

Im not giving them anymore bullets to fire tbh, i think ill stick to the football threads - rather then pointing out where they are spoofing. BU and Keioc seem to troling forums, digesting what fans are saying and letting others do the heavy lifting in terms of insights, analysis and reflection then just regurgatating it on their sites. If you look at the last article before this pone, and trace back the time line on this thread, its basiclly everything that has been said in this thread, cutted pasted, edited and slanted to their own agenda.

 

[davek]

Some excerpts from the most recent KEIOC article on the Kitbag deal. Asks some very pertinent questions IMO and adds a bit of comparison although clearly not all are fair or equal.

Merchandise Sales revenue is more difficult to determine as usually only the total commercial income is revealed in clubs accounts. One club that does itemise this is Spurs, last year receiving £10m from merchandise sales. Following repeated losses, Everton outsourced this income stream in 2007 and their current outsourcing partner, Kitbag, pay Everton up to £3m per annum to control every aspect of our merchandise operation. For Everton this was an ideal solution, no need to invest in a complete overhaul of the commercial operation, no need to run a series of shops or operate an e-commerce website, no staff, no stock, in fact no costs whatsoever and best of all the payment goes straight to the bottom line, it's pure profit.

Since outsourcing their retail and catering operations Everton's total commercial income has seen a £5m improvement over the last five years; in 2007 it was £7m, 2008 £9m, 2009 £9m, 2010 £10m and £12m in 2011. By comparison Aston Villa has seen an £11m increase [£6m in 2007, £11m in 2008, £12m in 2009, £14m in 2010 and £17m in 2011] and Tottenham Hotspur a £20m increase since 2006 whilst Liverpool, despite something of a financial and footballing odyssey in recent years, has seen their commercial revenues increase by £34m [£43m in 2007, £51m 2008, £60m in 2009, £62m in 2010 and £77m in 2011] with at least an additional £13m to come from their Warrior kit supply deal in 2012, which will astonishingly take their commercial income alone past Everton's total turnover.

The growth of these kit supply deals and the importance given to them, by both clubs and manufacturers, cannot be underestimated... Adidas and Nike account for a massive 44% of the total spend on these supply deals yet remarkably Everton received nothing when they recently switched suppliers from Le Coq Sportif to Nike; nothing in an era where their peers in the premiership are receiving record deals, nothing in an era when the manufacturers are spending hundreds of millions with clubs to secure these deals, nothing in the era of outsourcing our business to Kitbag.

Everton's fans and shareholders were led to believe that the Kitbag deal consisted of running the retail operation which had previously haemorrhaged money and required urgent attention by 2006. We were told that the ten year £32m deal related to the operation of the shops and the online business. We're concerned over Kitbags actual role in Everton's kit supply agreement and we're concerned over what the £7m sponsorship, advertising and merchandising revenue figure in Everton's accounts is comprised of.

We would like to ask the board some pertinent questions on this subject; for example, have we forfeited the right to negotiate an independent kit supply agreement over to Kitbag as part of the ten year deal? Why, in an era of multi-million pound deals, have Everton received nothing from one of the world's major kit manufacturers who are one of the leading proponents of making payments to secure kit supply agreements? Are Kitbag in effect in receipt of these manufacturers' payments, making Everton's ten year agreement effectively self-financing for Kitbag thereby making them the recipients of all revenue from the clubs retail operations? If this is not the case why has the Everton brand been so dramatically undersold in terms of the kit supply agreement?

It's an absolute scandal that deal with Kitbag. It looks to be the most short-sighted strategy ever adopted. Signing over a decades worth of revenue for a fraction of the total you could expect to make with a bit of effort in just selling off the merchandising arm minus the kit deals. I'd imagine this board of directors have done this simply because they had the thick end of that £32M deal front loaded to help pay down debt in the here and now...debt that they run up because they weren't prepared to invest in the club themselves or allow others to invest.

• Cutting commercial deals that hamstring the club going forward
• Organising dodgy bridging loans from shady British Virgin Islands hole in the wall operators
• The refusal to account for the massive increase in 'other operating costs'
• The denial of shareholders the right to ask pertinent questions about all of the above and more

...there's the strong smell of corruption about Everton.

 

[steken1]

It's an absolute scandal that deal with Kitbag. It looks to be the most short-sighted strategy ever adopted. Signing over a decades worth of revenue for a fraction of the total you could expect to make with a bit of effort in just selling off the merchandising arm minus the kit deals. I'd imagine this board of directors have done this simply because they had the thick end of that £32M deal front loaded to help pay down debt in the here and now...debt that they run up because they weren't prepared to invest in the club themselves or allow others to invest.

• Cutting commercial deals that hamstring the club going forward
• Organising dodgy bridging loans from shady British Virgin Islands hole in the wall operators
• The refusal to account for the massive increase in 'other operating costs'
• The denial of shareholders the right to ask pertinent questions about all of the above and more

...there's the strong smell of corruption about Everton.

I don't think there is corruption TBH. more someone making decisions based on other interests and other forced to toe the line. This along with the Sodexho and Chang deals means it's imopssible to sell the club at almost any price IMO. There is literally no incentive for a buyer in any way, shape or form.

Doug Ellis at Villa completely cleared the decks to encourage a sale. No long term deals, no big contracts, players sold to clear debt. We're doing the opposite. Looks like we may as well bed in for the long haul under Kim Jong Bill!!!

 

[steken1]

Fair play to them, they are the questions i asked five mins after there last poor artictle, at least they seem to more active in trolling forums etc and trying to come up with responses. TBH the above isnt a great comeback - but will be food and drink for those who like them.

Im not giving them anymore bullets to fire tbh, i think ill stick to the football threads - rather then pointing out where they are spoofing. BU and Keioc seem to troling forums, digesting what fans are saying and letting others do the heavy lifting in terms of insights, analysis and reflection then just regurgatating it on their sites. If you look at the last article before this pone, and trace back the time line on this thread, its basiclly everything that has been said in this thread, cutted pasted, edited and slanted to their own agenda.

I respect what you said about how they should go about effecting a change, I even agree TBH. They have done things I wouldn't dream of doing and the Facebook and other media is at times an embarassment, but, I just don't understand the 'why' they feel the need to put this stuff out doesn't bother you?

 

[nigelcoyb]

Consciously or subconsciously fans realise they are insignificant, the world of SKY, global marketing, sponsorship et al makes loyalty and NOT being "fair weather" actually counter productive.

News making protests supported by virtually 100% of matchgoers @ Newcastle and Liverpool did nothing (for liverpool owner change see banks) even high profile protests @ ManU achieved zip.

This Goodison Board are laughing at fans - no meaningful dialogue means questions go unanswered and lack of accountability is a breeding ground for malpractice.

I watched the official from Norwich talking about Chris Hughtons appointment, a **** time for them they've just lost an up and comer in Paul Lambert but they've dealt with it admirably. Decisive, professional, looking forward, not bull ****ting or dithering keeping the fans in touch and most of all being HONEST.

That's what I hold against BK and co - they're dishonest - not a penny of mine have these conmen seen from me these last few years and never will they.

 

[thebluefox]

Consciously or subconsciously fans realise they are insignificant, the world of SKY, global marketing, sponsorship et al makes loyalty and NOT being "fair weather" actually counter productive.

News making protests supported by virtually 100% of matchgoers @ Newcastle and Liverpool did nothing (for liverpool owner change see banks) even high profile protests @ ManU achieved zip.

This Goodison Board are laughing at fans - no meaningful dialogue means questions go unanswered and lack of accountability is a breeding ground for malpractice.

I watched the official from Norwich talking about Chris Hughtons appointment, a **** time for them they've just lost an up and comer in Paul Lambert but they've dealt with it admirably. Decisive, professional, looking forward, not bull ****ting or dithering keeping the fans in touch and most of all being HONEST.

That's what I hold against BK and co - they're dishonest - not a penny of mine have these conmen seen from me these last few years and never will they.

that sir is a fine post

 

[Roztitute]

Still dreaming about the day I come on GOT to find out we've been sold... Feels like it will never happen.

 

[nigelcoyb]

Appreciated foxy, it's a heartbreaking state of affairs though

 

[kenada_blue]

Kim Jong Bill.....love it

 

[Neiler]

I don't think there is corruption TBH. more someone making decisions based on other interests and other forced to toe the line. This along with the Sodexho and Chang deals means it's imopssible to sell the club at almost any price IMO. There is literally no incentive for a buyer in any way, shape or form.

Doug Ellis at Villa completely cleared the decks to encourage a sale. No long term deals, no big contracts, players sold to clear debt. We're doing the opposite. Looks like we may as well bed in for the long haul under Kim Jong Bill!!!

Tbh its the slant and the agenda in analysis that bothers me to be honest mate. I realise they are at the extreme end of an out agenda, but the misleadingness of some of the stuff they post annoys me, as do many of the things they and the BU have done over the years, i firmly believe both (and i use that term loosely) at different stages have harmed and undermined the club. I would be made up if there was an appropriate takeover or significant investment tomorrow - but because i don't conform to the out at any cost - he is killing the club mentality - im pro Kenwright - when really im not arsed whos in control of the club - once its positive for Everton or at the very least safe and sustainable - which is what we have at the mo. I think thats were most fans are to be honest and i think that pov should be represented. Yet what you tend to get on forums is polar opposites of extreme views. When really the majority are in the centre of the debate.

What annoys me about the BU and Keioc - apart from all the stuff i have posted in the past - is that all of the above is nothing more then a charm offensive, party political broadcasts at a time when they think they can mushroom pick Evertonians annoyed about a lack of transfer activity, if they are so strong in their conviction - why not protest at Wembley etc.

Secondly i take issue with the slant that they take in posting articles, a lot of it at worse is lies and at best misleading and i don't think the points they make are the smoking guns they seem to. For example. Last week they posted Villas kit deal was worth 3.7mill and Evertons was 650k. They conveniently left out the 3mill a year from Kitbag, or what share if any Everton get on the mark up of sales. I took issue with that and low and behold this week they rebuttal, prob after not picking up on it originally and circled the wagons.

This week its about commercial revenue and looking at outsourcing deals - that is big time slanted. Without question commercial revenue is an area we could hugely improve on. But its one broad stroke. They look at solely on outsourcing deals which is misleading. For example. What price is a season ticket, or a ticket for a game at Villa, Liverpool, City, Spurs and Villa - that all comes under commercial revenue.

Its like me posting an article saying in rebuttal, that Keioc believe Everton supports arent as passionate as the other clubs they mention as they are not willing to stump up more for Kits, Merchandising, Season tickets etc. Or posting KEIOC call for increase in Kit and Season tickets sales. How many on here will wait until after Chrimbo to get their hands on a cheap bit of kit or training gear or one for the kids or took up the early bird on a season ticket - exactly - no one wants to die but everyone wants to go to heaven.

Anyhow i given them enough bullets. I enjoy your posts btw mate - you should get involved with one of those groups if thats what you believe, they are in bad need of a bit of reason and intelligence.

 

[LTblue]

Some fine, intelligent, insightful posting on this thread today, pleasure to read well done gents.

 

[davek]

Tbh its the slant and the agenda in analysis that bothers me to be honest mate. I realise they are at the extreme end of an out agenda, but the misleadingness of some of the stuff they post annoys me, as do many of the things they and the BU have done over the years, i firmly believe both (and i use that term loosely) at different stages have harmed and undermined the club. I would be made up if there was an appropriate takeover or significant investment tomorrow - but because i don't conform to the out at any cost - he is killing the club mentality - im pro Kenwright - when really im not arsed whos in control of the club - once its positive for Everton or at the very least safe and sustainable - which is what we have at the mo. I think thats were most fans are to be honest and i think that pov should be represented. Yet what you tend to get on forums is polar opposites of extreme views. When really the majority are in the centre of the debate.

What annoys me about the BU and Keioc - apart from all the stuff i have posted in the past - is that all of the above is nothing more then a charm offensive, party political broadcasts at a time when they think they can mushroom pick Evertonians annoyed about a lack of transfer activity, if they are so strong in their conviction - why not protest at Wembley etc.

Secondly i take issue with the slant that they take in posting things at a lot of it at worse is lies and at best misleading and i don't think the points are the smoking guns they seem to. For example. Last week they posted Villas deal was worth 3.7mill and Evertons was 650k. They conveniently left out the 3mill a year from Kitbag, or what share if any Everton get on the mark up of sales. I took issue with that and low and behold this week they rebuttal, prob after not picking up on it originally and circled the wagons.

This week its about commercial revenue and looking at outsourcing deals - that is big time slanted. Without question commercial revenue is an area we could hugely improve on. But its one broad stroke. They look at solely on outsourcing deals which is misleading. For example. What price is a season ticket, or a ticket for a game at Villa, Liverpool, City, Spurs and Villa - that all comes under commercial revenue.

Its like me posting an article saying in rebuttal, that Keioc believe Everton supports arent as passionate as the other clubs they mention as they are not willing to stump up more for Kits, Merchandising, Season tickets etc. Or posting KEIOC call for increase in Kit and Season tickets. How many on here will wait until after Chrimbo to get their hands on a cheap bit of kit or training gear or one for the kids or took up the early bird on a season ticket - exactly - no one wants to die but everyone wants to go to heaven.

Anyhow i given them enough bullets. I enjoy your posts btw mate - you should get involved with one of those groups if thats what you believe, they are in bad need of a bit of reason and intelligence.

The moment you make good your claim you coulde list your own series of concerns re this board is the moment that becomes credible.

I seem to remember maybe 18 months ago when it became obvious that the club needed to ditch players over the side to stay afloat that you'd had it with BK and his fellow directors, only to inch back toward this 'middle' ground you now occupy.

Very puzzling.