The Everton Board Thread (Inc. Bill Kenwright / Blue Union)

[davek]

Don't you think that's a very simplistic way of looking at it? It has no context. The debt could be £100m but if the turnover was a couple of billion it would be irrelevant.

It's like a mortgage on your house. If your mortgage 10 years ago was £100K and your house was worth £120K are you saying you're really better off than if your mortgage is now £200K but your house is worth £350K?

I did take on board the context you placed the debt in in a post above. It's not as an impressive performance as you think it is. Take the tv cash out (as Steken did) and see what percentages you come up with. That's the real comparison.

 

[Dell Boy]

Absolutely. It's been carnage off-field and the only thing masking that is the team's consistency. How anyone would even have the brass neck to put a defence up for this board's performance is beyond me.

I'm trying to use some facts you clown!

All you do is trot out the same old lines.

 

[steken1]

I might be wrong but I was under the impression that Goodison is mortgaged to the Pru and we're steadily paying it back? If that's right then the remaining mortgage will be included within the debt.

The original mortgage was with the Pru and later transferred to Bear Sterns I believe. At one point a few years ago it had 14 seperate mortgages on it. My understanding is that there were none at the time of TBH's takeover. Certainly the bigger ones all came on Bill's watch.

 

[Dell Boy]

I did take on board the context you placed the debt in in a post above. It's not as an impressive performance as you think it is. Take the tv cash out (as Steken did) and see what percentages you come up with. That's the real comparison.

But how is it the real comparison? The TV cash and place money is our fundamental source of income as it is for almost all clubs. That's the business we're in. I agree completely that the performance in other commercial areas is not good. On that I've only sought to question some on here thinking that the club are in some way deliberately trying to be crap in that area. There have been loads of comments on here about "dodgy contracts" and the like.

You and others have made a fundamental point of saying the club now is ridden with debt. All I'm saying is that from teh figures I've got thus far that is not the case.

 

[steken1]

We take out a bridging loan is your point. We have only ever taken out 2 loans with Vibrac as credit sources have dried up for the club due to it,s credit condition. We pay through the nose for the loans and will continue you to do based on the latest credit score. We still have 8 separate charges on the books which are outstanding.

Exactly. Fact is we fall short £12m a year. We also lose each year while selling a player and making some profit on our player trading. My point is that at best these things may not need to happen in future.

 

[Dell Boy]

The original mortgage was with the Pru and later transferred to Bear Sterns I believe. At one point a few years ago it had 14 seperate mortgages on it. My understanding is that there were none at the time of TBH's takeover. Certainly the bigger ones all came on Bill's watch.

Since BS went bust I'm presuming it's back with the Pru. I'm not arguing how the debt is sliced up. I'm just trying to say that for critics of Kenwright to say "we're now in more debt", "record debts" etc appears to be wrong and misleading.

 

[Dell Boy]

Exactly. Fact is we fall short £12m a year. We also lose each year while selling a player and making some profit on our player trading. My point is that at best these things may not need to happen in future.

As a small aside if you look back at that article from 1999 it was saying the same thing about us needing to sell players to survive.

 

[steken1]

As a small aside if you look back at that article from 1999 it was saying the same thing about us needing to sell players to survive.

Suggests we're in a similar position then? Except one reign is looked on as disastrous for the club and one is revered by some, I know not all. It could be simply a choice of manager that has determined how each man is looked on by Evertonians.

The thing that I find most disturbing is that we're going through a period of unbelieveable riches and nothing of any note has been done to move the club forward into a more modern establishment. FF could be argued I suppose, but what's the sense in a great training ground owned by others when the ground isn't fit for purpose?

 

[Moomin]

I find comparing the reigns of Kenwright and Johnson to a pair of dog turds on the pavement.

There both a piece of ****!!!

 

[kenada_blue]

When you consider we had assets worth at least the debt itself plus Goodison was nowhere near as mortaged as it is now then it's impossible to suggest we are in a better position now IMO.

Reading over the posts, thats the killer point.

We have zero assets apart from the players on the pitch, yet 46million of debt and god knows what else.

 

[riddick]

so whatever happened to the shareholders voting on and requesting an AGM or EGM?

 

[kenada_blue]

Suggests we're in a similar position then? Except one reign is looked on as disastrous for the club and one is revered by some, I know not all. It could be simply a choice of manager that has determined how each man is looked on by Evertonians.

The thing that I find most disturbing is that we're going through a period of unbelieveable riches and nothing of any note has been done to move the club forward into a more modern establishment. FF could be argued I suppose, but what's the sense in a great training ground owned by others when the ground isn't fit for purpose?

This.

And we've had plenty of doors opened by whats happened on the pitch (Cup final, europe, champions league) and taken baby steps to cover hand to mouth rather than take leaps to sustainability

 

[D410]

so whatever happened to the shareholders voting on and requesting an AGM or EGM?

They got the required votes to support an EGM.

 

[riddick]

sooo... is there one planned?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Their are 8 separate outstanding charges with multiple names that go back to 2003.

The "open" Vibrac loan was created in Aug 2012 and is outstanding and no Vibrac loan ever taken out went back 4 years.

Lets, leave at that eh.

No, let's not.

I said the current loan is from Vibrac.

The annual borrowing of circa £12M from the guaranteed following years TV revenue dates back about 4 years.