The Everton Board Thread (Inc. Bill Kenwright / Blue Union)

[Chang Elephant]

He's a badly deluded full blown Kopite

Kenwright ?

 

[teameverton]

You brought up the £19m overdraft from the Johnson era, as if to take the sting out of Kenwright's faults.



So short-sighted. It's far more than just Bellefield, which indeed the club sold for £9m, all of the money going to the banks to repay part of the debt. As for Finch Farm - Everton sold the land to Hudson Capital Properties for £2.1m. Finch Farm is now worth £17m. Everton pay Hudson Capital Properties rent of £1.25m a year to train at Finch Farm.
All of the club's assets have either been sold or mortgaged: this includes the stadium, which acts as security for a £30m loan; future season ticket sales for many years into the future, the method by which the loan is repaid; and the club's own ability to generate future commercial income as they have uniquely sold the rights to both their catering (Sodexo) and merchandising operations (Kitbag). This is why the club has very little money and is always skint; the areas in which they could have made some money, they were completely out of their depth, to the point they made losses. Rather than employ specialists in-house to get these areas profitable, they took the easy option of outsourcing, which got the immediate losses off the books (making them look good to the banks), but at the same time sacrificing any potential growth or profitability for many years to come.

With £45m of debt, no tangible assets to speak of and the smallest squad in the Premier League, Everton now have a negative balance sheet with £35m of liabilities – when Kenwright took control there was £20m of assets

Nothing 'overblown' or 'nonsensical' about that, these are the 'real facts'.

Its amazing that a self made man like Kenwright is (i think its safe to say no one on this forum has made the money Kenwright has) made such a massive blunder there.I for one dont think we are getting all the facts!
Also this must be the most transparent club in the world, i never read all these facts in the echo, but come on these forums and Everton is an open book.

 

[BoysInBlue]

Its amazing that a self made man like Kenwright is (i think its safe to say no one on this forum has made the money Kenwright has) made such a massive blunder there.I for one dont think we are getting all the facts!
Also this must be the most transparent club in the world, i never read all these facts in the echo, but come on these forums and Everton is an open book.

Indeed, that is the problem. All of this information is on public record - the accounts, the details about Finch Farm etc.

The local media won't write stories about it because the club have a long track record of acting really petulantly when a news story they don't like is published, and retaliate by banning the local journalist/paper from the training ground/press room at the stadium. It's in the paper's best interests to keep on the right side of the club and not rock the boat, hence the status quo is maintained. It's a really sad state of affairs. The fewer people know about this stuff, the more likely nothing changes (behaviour & attitude), and is why certain people get clapped, and why the likes of outsiders like Piers Morgan continue to make ill-informed and ludicrous statements like 'Everton are a well run club' on international media platforms.

 

[Bluesnapper]

Legal action? Lol

You are the one who decided that because the piece was written by a RS as some kind of distraction from the truth. So I want to know what part of the piece isnt accurate?

 

[Bluesnapper]

Its amazing that a self made man like Kenwright is (i think its safe to say no one on this forum has made the money Kenwright has) made such a massive blunder there.I for one dont think we are getting all the facts!
Also this must be the most transparent club in the world, i never read all these facts in the echo, but come on these forums and Everton is an open book.

Yeah so open that the greatest Evertonian in the world cannot answer questions put to him by people who have money placed in shares at the club.

Clap, clap...........

 

[BoysInBlue]

Not Everton-related, but relevant to this topic and the last few posts made, just saw this. This is what real owners investing in a club looks like:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21628873

Leicester City owners purchase King Power Stadium
1 March 2013 Last updated at 10:14

Leicester City's owners have completed the purchase of the club's King Power Stadium for £17m.
The Srivaddhanaprabha family have bought the ground from an American pension fund manager through their K Power Holdings company.
Vice-chairman Aiyawatt Srivaddhanaprabha said the news was a great boost for the club.
"It's always been part of our long-term vision to put the stadium back where it belongs," he told the club website.
"Our plan is to bring long-term sustainable success to Leicester City Football Club. Purchasing the stadium was always a key element in this plan.
"Whilst there are no immediate plans to alter the structure or design of the stadium site, the increased flexibility through direct ownership ensures that the football club can freely adjust to the changing needs of its supporter-base for the future."

 

[Bluenose1995]

scumbag redcoat doesnt know what investment means done you clap clap clappers up like a bunch of kippers CLOWNS

 

[BoysInBlue]

Funny how all these other clubs can find people to invest in them, and they're not all charlatans like the often used Pompey & Rangers examples. Leicester found some good people, and they're a Championship club. What we'd give to have some owners willing to invest £17m (or more) of their own money into the club.

 

[D410]

I like Greg but he bottled it here at the end when asked hard questions. He should get his boss to answer those questions for him

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/ever...30pm-on-thursday-28-february-100252-32893829/

 

[davek]

I like Greg but he bottled it here at the end when asked hard questions. He should get his boss to answer those questions for him

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/ever...30pm-on-thursday-28-february-100252-32893829/

His boss being Kenwright?

 

[kenada_blue]

Indeed, that is the problem. All of this information is on public record - the accounts, the details about Finch Farm etc.

The local media won't write stories about it because the club have a long track record of acting really petulantly when a news story they don't like is published, and retaliate by banning the local journalist/paper from the training ground/press room at the stadium. It's in the paper's best interests to keep on the right side of the club and not rock the boat, hence the status quo is maintained. It's a really sad state of affairs. The fewer people know about this stuff, the more likely nothing changes (behaviour & attitude), and is why certain people get clapped, and why the likes of outsiders like Piers Morgan continue to make ill-informed and ludicrous statements like 'Everton are a well run club' on international media platforms.

That won't happy because it's plucky everton who don't upset the status quo.

If it were Arsenal/Spurs etc the press would have a field day.

 

[BoysInBlue]

That won't happy because it's plucky everton who don't upset the status quo.

If it were Arsenal/Spurs etc the press would have a field day.

Of course. We'd all kill to be in Arsenal's position, yet the way Piers Morgan & his cronies talk, you'd think they were the next Portsmouth and the worst run club in the world. If Arsenal had our problems, there'd be an AFC Arsenal by now and boycotts galore.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

You brought up the £19m overdraft from the Johnson era, as if to take the sting out of Kenwright's faults.

So short-sighted. It's far more than just Bellefield, which indeed the club sold for £9m, all of the money going to the banks to repay part of the debt. As for Finch Farm - Everton sold the land to Hudson Capital Properties for £2.1m. Finch Farm is now worth £17m. Everton pay Hudson Capital Properties rent of £1.25m a year to train at Finch Farm.

All of the club's assets have either been sold or mortgaged: this includes the stadium, which acts as security for a £30m loan; future season ticket sales for many years into the future, the method by which the loan is repaid; and the club's own ability to generate future commercial income as they have uniquely sold the rights to both their catering (Sodexo) and merchandising operations (Kitbag). This is why the club has very little money and is always skint; the areas in which they could have made some money, they were completely out of their depth, to the point they made losses. Rather than employ specialists in-house to get these areas profitable, they took the easy option of outsourcing, which got the immediate losses off the books (making them look good to the banks), but at the same time sacrificing any potential growth or profitability for many years to come.

With £45m of debt, no tangible assets to speak of and the smallest squad in the Premier League, Everton now have a negative balance sheet with £35m of liabilities – when Kenwright took control there was £20m of assets

Nothing 'overblown' or 'nonsensical' about that, these are the 'real facts'.

I brought up the securitisation of the overdraft because it's a fact, apologies for wishing to deal in facts, rather than hyperbole.

I love the way that anyone daring to be even handed when discussing anything in this area, is then automatically classed as being a defender of Kenwright. In my case it's nothing of the sort, Kenwright needs to move on, but I don't see what over blowing the truth does to aid that agenda.

As for the assets, Bellefield was liquidised, but the Finch farm land was bought & sold by who & when exactly? They sold a patch of grass & lease a training facility, there's a distinct difference. If you advocate that the club should have funded the build itself with on balance sheet debt, then you'd also have to accept that player funding over that period would have been reduced by that amount, or that the debt level would have increased by the same amount.

The stadium has a securitised loan attached, the asset still exists, the value of the asset is still the same, the cash value of it has gone nowhere, this is totally different to liquidising an asset as per Bellfield.

I disagree that the outsourced deals are necessarily bad business, time will tell. Albeit I'd say that loss making functions turned straight into profit making doesn't sound like the worst deal in the World.

The debt level has increased & the balance sheet looks poor, but if the intangible assets i.e. the players, were on there at their true value, compared to the true value at the time you're choosing to look back to, then it'd be a different picture to the one you're wishing to portray.

I find it irritating that we can't look at this issue objectively, rather than with a slant, as even when looked at objectively it doesn't alter the fact that Bill is taking us nowhere, as he lacks the financial muscle & werewithall to develop the club beyond what it is today.

 

[BoysInBlue]

Ironically, you're accusing me of putting an overly negative spin on this, when I feel that you're putting an overly positive spin on it. I feel I've looked at it objectively, in black and white.

You've tried to downplay the securitisation of the club's stadium. What other club's use their own stadium as securitisation? I think you'll find hardly any in the Premier League.

In answer to your question, yes, I'd have advocated reducing player spending if the club were that desperate for a new training ground. In short - don't buy something you can't afford to own, and don't sacrifice owning for renting. Other clubs wait for years to build training grounds, because they want to own rather than rent.

I've stated the case as to why outsourcing our revenue streams are bad. Literally the only positive was getting losses off the books, but that's a false economy; in the long run it would have been far better to use specialists to improve business, rather than sacrifice revenue streams that the club are crying out for. The value of those revenue streams have to be looked at too - Sodexo embroiled in the horse meat scandal (admittedly like many other firms, but still, not good for the Goodison Park consumer), and Kitbag especially - in many ways they have improved our retail arm, the shops are well stocked, look good, with a good range of merchandise, however the exclusivity of the club's kits absolutely kills dead our visibility in the high street and further afield, killing off potential growth. The fact the club doesn't get much revenue at all from the deal is like salt in the wounds as well. We've had Kitbag for 4 years now, I'd say that's long enough to pass judgement.

You're claiming our players are worth more than what I'm claiming, that is deeply arguable. Players' worth is flexible and dependent on many factors at the time any transaction is done; timing of deal, desperation of clubs (and banks), time left on players contract, desire of player to move, desire of manager to move on player, etc. You cannot use that as something to paint a rosier picture, as it's a movable feast. For every £24m Lescott & £12m Rodwell great deal (above market value), there's a £10m Arteta or dare I say, £20m Rooney (plus add ons) bad deal (under market value).

You're coming to the same conclusion as me, that Kenwright is no good for Everton and is running the club badly, so I'm struggling to see why you're essentially saying, "Well, that's a bit harsh, he's not that bad... but I still think he's bad for Everton and should go".

 

[nigelcoyb]

I brought up the securitisation of the overdraft because it's a fact, apologies for wishing to deal in facts, rather than hyperbole.

I love the way that anyone daring to be even handed when discussing anything in this area, is then automatically classed as being a defender of Kenwright. In my case it's nothing of the sort, Kenwright needs to move on, but I don't see what over blowing the truth does to aid that agenda.

As for the assets, Bellefield was liquidised, but the Finch farm land was bought & sold by who & when exactly? They sold a patch of grass & lease a training facility, there's a distinct difference. If you advocate that the club should have funded the build itself with on balance sheet debt, then you'd also have to accept that player funding over that period would have been reduced by that amount, or that the debt level would have increased by the same amount.

The stadium has a securitised loan attached, the asset still exists, the value of the asset is still the same, the cash value of it has gone nowhere, this is totally different to liquidising an asset as per Bellfield.

I disagree that the outsourced deals are necessarily bad business, time will tell. Albeit I'd say that loss making functions turned straight into profit making doesn't sound like the worst deal in the World.

The debt level has increased & the balance sheet looks poor, but if the intangible assets i.e. the players, were on there at their true value, compared to the true value at the time you're choosing to look back to, then it'd be a different picture to the one you're wishing to portray.

I find it irritating that we can't look at this issue objectively, rather than with a slant, as even when looked at objectively it doesn't alter the fact that Bill is taking us nowhere, as he lacks the financial muscle & werewithall to develop the club beyond what it is today.

Actually agree with most of this the club has effectively swapped off field assets for on field arguably the sale of Felli and Baines would come near to balancing the equation admittedly putting us nearly back to square one of a decade ago.

The area of real loss is the wage increase but every fan has their own view if that has given value for money.

The valid criticism of the board for me is have they speculated with their own cash to get a return later on? improving the ground putting extra money in to improve CL chances (as this season) - It appears not.