The Fanbase - it's your fault?

[Jimishorts]

Boo = you're crap (even though you might be trying to be good).
Hurrah = we should buy that player.

 

[Blue Roo]

Discussion in other threads regarding the ability of our players have solely pointed the finger at our fan base. So let the debate begin.

Are the vile ketwigs in the street end responsible, or may the IPA drinkers in the Park End?? Is it possible that a set of fans, sitting there and paying money to watch the team they love be responsible for Tom Davies being unable to pick out a 5 yard pass, or even find space for himself?? Is it the fans fault that DCL looks like bambi on ice??

How far do our disgusting fans go? Was Gylfi a victim of this same horrible behaviour last year?? The poor lad was just trying hard week in and week out but was unable to demonstrate all his talent because of the constant harassment he received from the stands.

How can we address this horrible pattern which has been holding our club back since 1987?

Chris, maybe you could answer the question as to whether you think the crowd overall, or sections of, are having a positive or negative effect on the team, individual players, and the outcome of the matches.

Negative- If there's more sledging and abuse of our players than the opposition then its got have some effect.
Maybe not so much on a players ability to pick a five yard pass, that's entirely up to them, but in terms of confidence.

Positive- I'd go as far as to say its the responsibility of the 12th man to pick the team up when needed, and making sure the young uns coming through get a bit extra.

Don't get me wrong, fuming, frustrations boiling over, the occasional sledge, and booing when called for, should be part of the discourse shared between fans and the team. (but not outright abuse). I despise PC and the increasing sanitisation of life.
I'm just questioning the overall quality of the give and take.

 

[Simon Buttle]

Chris, maybe you could answer the question as to whether you think the crowd overall, or sections of, are having a positive or negative effect on the team, individual players, and the outcome of the matches.

Negative- If there's more sledging and abuse of our players than the opposition then its got have some effect.
Maybe not so much on a players ability to pick a five yard pass, that's entirely up to them, but in terms of confidence.

Positive- I'd go as far as to say its the responsibility of the 12th man to pick the team up when needed, and making sure the young uns coming through get a bit extra.

Don't get me wrong, fuming, frustrations boiling over, the occasional sledge, and booing when called for, should be part of the discourse shared between fans and the team. (but not outright abuse). I despise PC and the increasing sanitisation of life.
I'm just questioning the overall quality of the give and take.

Is the fan abuse any worse than at any other ground? i know we get frustrated at times but that is just because i think we know the players can do more than they show sometimes. Last season for example, it was easy to get frustrated with the players because we all knew they were better than Allardyce hoofball. I think a lot of it just comes from the fact we are starved of anything positive in recent years (ie cups, europe) i honestly don't think it's any worse than any other ground in the PL.

 

[AUXLEN]

TY for introducing me to the term Ketwigs...

 

[Dymak]

Our home record is really quite good, whereas our away record is beyond crap, so if our moody home support is having an effect, then it seems to be a positive one.

Our players have absolutely no problem with downing tools or being half arsed when they are given the opportunity to do so (most away games).

 

[ClausThomsen]

He needs at least 2 seasons here, before we can judge him.

Sometimes it becomes clear much sooner....

 

[ClausThomsen]

Is the fan abuse any worse than at any other ground?

Citeh's fans seem to have got a lot more positive in recent years whereas Villa were booed into the Championship. Weird isn't it?

 

[Simon Buttle]

Citeh's fans seem to have got a lot more positive in recent years whereas Villa were booed into the Championship. Weird isn't it?

They moaned like hell when they went out of the Champions League to the RS last season, even though they were miles ahead in the domestic league and i don't know much about Villa tbh, i would say their problem is probably having Steve Bruce as manager rather than the fans.

 

[ClausThomsen]

They moaned like hell when they went out of the Champions League to the RS last season, even though they were miles ahead in the domestic league and i don't know much about Villa tbh, i would say their problem is probably having Steve Bruce as manager rather than the fans.

That's the point, it's not the negativity of fans that did for Villa and it wasn't the positive crowd that is responsible for Man City's rise.

And was Bruce in charge when they went down?

 

[Simon Buttle]

That's the point, it's not the negativity of fans that did for Villa and it wasn't the positive crowd that is responsible for Man City's rise.

And was Bruce in charge when they went down?

Im not 100% sure actually, but he was already getting the boo's on Saturday after they lost, he's one of those managers who always seems to have work despite not being very good imo.

 

[ClausThomsen]

Im not 100% sure actually, but he was already getting the boo's on Saturday after they lost, he's one of those managers who always seems to have work despite not being very good imo.

He's got a very decent record in getting teams out of the Championship....I think?

 

[Blue Roo]

Is the fan abuse any worse than at any other ground? i know we get frustrated at times but that is just because i think we know the players can do more than they show sometimes. Last season for example, it was easy to get frustrated with the players because we all knew they were better than Allardyce hoofball. I think a lot of it just comes from the fact we are starved of anything positive in recent years (ie cups, europe) i honestly don't think it's any worse than any other ground in the PL.

No its not. But screw everybody else. We've had three pretty woeful periods of football (in terms of play at least), its time to get a bit more positive and lay off the young fells, and it'll turn around that much quicker...cause we got a match coming up in December.

 

[Coggy]

Obvious point: everyone has and can have an opinion.

What I don't like about modern football is the short-sightedness and jealousy of the modern fan, including ours.

Klopp and Pochettino are just two examples of sides built upon an identity and a slower time scale build. An example closer to home? David Moyes.

Already some of you are turning on Silva. 5 games in. New manager, staff, way of playing, players...yet after 4 games an unbeaten start is seen as underwhelming and - as per other threads - 5 / 10 and lower 'scores'.

Most of the time it seems to be built on "well we were ace in the 1980s, why shouldn't we aspire to being better?!". Agreed, but by doing so it's important to avoid stamping your literal / electronic feet of "but i want it NOW".

Not even pasting money at a side guarantees you titles anymore. Look at Utd. Look at what they've spent and they limp along in the shadow of Ferguson's golden era completely based on longevity and long term planning.

No-one was going to walk into our club this summer, not even Pep / Jose / Simeone and turn a team of ours into leathering everyone we've played so far this season. Gomes, Mina, Bernard and Zouma, players we've all said are good buys, have barely even played yet. So some of you are judging Silva on player's we all conceded throughout last season weren't good enough / weren't playing a balanced team.

So yeah, fans are ace and everyone deserves a voice. But contextual debate and perspective is equally important. Something we / all club fans seem to lack at times.

This is probably the best response I can imagine.
You have produced exactly what I wanted to say

 

[Pat Dog]

I've got no problem with giving criticism when it's warranted.
I do have a problem with idiots who get on the back of young players who need to develop.
If you dont think they are ready then it's not their fault they were picked.
It's only the freakishly rare players who appear 85% formed and to buy one at age 19 would cost you £50 million.
Atmosphere matters and it's the responsibility of the supporters and the team.

 

[Philw]

Obvious point: everyone has and can have an opinion.

What I don't like about modern football is the short-sightedness and jealousy of the modern fan, including ours.

Klopp and Pochettino are just two examples of sides built upon an identity and a slower time scale build. An example closer to home? David Moyes.

Already some of you are turning on Silva. 5 games in. New manager, staff, way of playing, players...yet after 4 games an unbeaten start is seen as underwhelming and - as per other threads - 5 / 10 and lower 'scores'.

Most of the time it seems to be built on "well we were ace in the 1980s, why shouldn't we aspire to being better?!". Agreed, but by doing so it's important to avoid stamping your literal / electronic feet of "but i want it NOW".

Not even pasting money at a side guarantees you titles anymore. Look at Utd. Look at what they've spent and they limp along in the shadow of Ferguson's golden era completely based on longevity and long term planning.

No-one was going to walk into our club this summer, not even Pep / Jose / Simeone and turn a team of ours into leathering everyone we've played so far this season. Gomes, Mina, Bernard and Zouma, players we've all said are good buys, have barely even played yet. So some of you are judging Silva on player's we all conceded throughout last season weren't good enough / weren't playing a balanced team.

So yeah, fans are ace and everyone deserves a voice. But contextual debate and perspective is equally important. Something we / all club fans seem to lack at times.

The difference between an average footballer and a good one is confidence. If Seamus had a bad game last week it will have effected his confidence through he match. Passes don't go well, players stop attempting the ambitious stuff that beats the opposition and they go into their shells.

Players are human. Some are more robust than others. Seamus is a rock and will bounce back soon. Others just crumble - look at that kid, Jason Lee? at Forest who had a pineapple on his head (badiel & skinner). Once that song stuck he just crumbled into oblivion.

Players thrive on confidence and confidence arises from encouragement and success.

I wonder how much the club has spent in players that were destroyed by the 'less than encouraging' atmosphere.

Chris, maybe you could answer the question as to whether you think the crowd overall, or sections of, are having a positive or negative effect on the team, individual players, and the outcome of the matches.

Negative- If there's more sledging and abuse of our players than the opposition then its got have some effect.
Maybe not so much on a players ability to pick a five yard pass, that's entirely up to them, but in terms of confidence.

Positive- I'd go as far as to say its the responsibility of the 12th man to pick the team up when needed, and making sure the young uns coming through get a bit extra.

Don't get me wrong, fuming, frustrations boiling over, the occasional sledge, and booing when called for, should be part of the discourse shared between fans and the team. (but not outright abuse). I despise PC and the increasing sanitisation of life.
I'm just questioning the overall quality of the give and take.

The posts the OP needs, not the ones it deserves...

Anyone who thinks the atmosphere at games doesn't affect players (especially young ones) is extremely naive. I don't go to home games, so can't comment on what the atmosphere is really like, or how bad the abuse gets, but imo booing a bad performance, occasional groans when someone gives the ball away etc is acceptable, constant abuse of players is not. The players have a responsibility to play well for us (or at least try to), but we also have a responsibility to support them. Sometimes that means not giving them dogs even if they're playing like turd.