The Friedkin Group - Dan & Ryan Friedkin [19/07/2024] Purchase Talks Over.

[pfim]

Take a step back and think through what I write below please mate

Any US of A legal system means nothing.

I repeat NOTHING. If the debt is repaid in full according to the agreement.

There is a loan agreement. This will have terms inside.

Within those terms will be potential early repayment penalties (if any)

TFG have chosen not to repay the loan (in full) from 777 whether or not that involves penalties.

Ergo the fact is that they ONLY wanted to use £200mil plus any other relatively small payments to take a majority shareholding.

Why is that clear? Because the debts are clear and obvious. We all know them (having said that ive forgotten exact amounts).

The issue (as you correctly point out) is the US legal system IF the loan is not repaid in full before the case goes to court.

If TFG decided not to inject the capital to pay off the loan then legally they may be found liable for penalties and suchlike pertaining to any case on 777

However, lets get this to plain and simple terms:

1: If TFG injected the capital to pay off 777 (£200mil?) With any early payment penalties then 777 is repaid in full according to the agreement and 777 are OUT.

2: TFG chose not to do this.

3: This means either:

A: TFG did not believe the club was worth £400mil+ (its worth more than double once the stadium is built)

B: TFG did not want to use their own capital. Instead keep the current debt level and restructure on lower long term interest once the stadium is built (thus paying off 777 & R&M at that time).


Clearly and somewhat obviously the answer is 3B above.


4; This clearly shows what they have stated all along that Roma is the priority -- seen by the capital invested compared to this £200mil+.

5: Additionally this means NO additional or LIMITED additional funds would have been injected by TFG. It was all a way to pickup a £1bil club with £200mil+ and then make it self sufficient to cover the long term restructured debt.


For me, it is a lucky, very lucky escape.

Where are you getting these numbers? RMF, 777 and TFG debt is more than that.

 

[matty1878]

Take a step back and think through what I write below please mate

Any US of A legal system means nothing.

I repeat NOTHING. If the debt is repaid in full according to the agreement.

There is a loan agreement. This will have terms inside.

Within those terms will be potential early repayment penalties (if any)

TFG have chosen not to repay the loan (in full) from 777 whether or not that involves penalties.

Ergo the fact is that they ONLY wanted to use £200mil plus any other relatively small payments to take a majority shareholding.

Why is that clear? Because the debts are clear and obvious. We all know them (having said that ive forgotten exact amounts).

The issue (as you correctly point out) is the US legal system IF the loan is not repaid in full before the case goes to court.

If TFG decided not to inject the capital to pay off the loan then legally they may be found liable for penalties and suchlike pertaining to any case on 777

However, lets get this to plain and simple terms:

1: If TFG injected the capital to pay off 777 (£200mil?) With any early payment penalties then 777 is repaid in full according to the agreement and 777 are OUT.

2: TFG chose not to do this.

3: This means either:

A: TFG did not believe the club was worth £400mil+ (its worth more than double once the stadium is built)

B: TFG did not want to use their own capital. Instead keep the current debt level and restructure on lower long term interest once the stadium is built (thus paying off 777 & R&M at that time).


Clearly and somewhat obviously the answer is 3B above.


4; This clearly shows what they have stated all along that Roma is the priority -- seen by the capital invested compared to this £200mil+.

5: Additionally this means NO additional or LIMITED additional funds would have been injected by TFG. It was all a way to pickup a £1bil club with £200mil+ and then make it self sufficient to cover the long term restructured debt.


For me, it is a lucky, very lucky escape.

lies

 

[toffee66]

The issue is the legal disputes in the USA centre around 777 pledging the same assets/securities, including their loans & security to Everton, as collateral to borrow money from multiple lenders. This means it is not legally clear who out of A-Cap, Leadenhall and others really owns the “777” debt, how much it is and who/how we should repay.

Moshiri/the club or a buyer could theoretically go to the US courts and let them decide who has jurisdiction and then try to negotiate with the appropriate US court to put the full money due (if clear) to repay the debt into escrow. They could also ask the courts to treat the debt as repaid (no more interest).

That is obviously complex, time consuming and the outcome uncertain. It ties up money indefinitely (that Moshiri does not have!) or it prevents a buyer negotiating with A-Cap/whoever to take a haircut on repayment. Only a buyer willing to clear this in full can go this route and even then it is not certain the courts would agree if they do not feel they can properly put a value on the debt or if the debt was given using funds obtained fraudulently and that the club/Moshiri could or should have known this.

In the meantime the buyer’s name gets caught up in all the legal shenanigans. The Friedkin Group decided the risks were too big once they clearly understood the facts (we only have parts of the picture). This is not the argument over price they had buying Roma. It is also not an issue that applies only to them. Any other buyer faces the same issues. They might see it differently. They might not.

 

[barneygumble]

Anyone reached the bargaining stage yet?

They've withdrew to hope ACap go bust, save £200m and ride into town?

Club state on good terms with the Freidkins, and the £50m Moshiri wanrs will simple become Freidkins?

Or are there too many straws I'm clutching there?

 

[Hellerad]

Take a step back and think through what I write below please mate

Any US of A legal system means nothing.

I repeat NOTHING. If the debt is repaid in full according to the agreement.

There is a loan agreement. This will have terms inside.

Within those terms will be potential early repayment penalties (if any)

TFG have chosen not to repay the loan (in full) from 777 whether or not that involves penalties.

Ergo the fact is that they ONLY wanted to use £200mil plus any other relatively small payments to take a majority shareholding.

Why is that clear? Because the debts are clear and obvious. We all know them (having said that ive forgotten exact amounts).

The issue (as you correctly point out) is the US legal system IF the loan is not repaid in full before the case goes to court.

If TFG decided not to inject the capital to pay off the loan then legally they may be found liable for penalties and suchlike pertaining to any case on 777

However, lets get this to plain and simple terms:

1: If TFG injected the capital to pay off 777 (£200mil?) With any early payment penalties then 777 is repaid in full according to the agreement and 777 are OUT.

2: TFG chose not to do this.

3: This means either:

A: TFG did not believe the club was worth £400mil+ (its worth more than double once the stadium is built)

B: TFG did not want to use their own capital. Instead keep the current debt level and restructure on lower long term interest once the stadium is built (thus paying off 777 & R&M at that time).


Clearly and somewhat obviously the answer is 3B above.


4; This clearly shows what they have stated all along that Roma is the priority -- seen by the capital invested compared to this £200mil+.

5: Additionally this means NO additional or LIMITED additional funds would have been injected by TFG. It was all a way to pickup a £1bil club with £200mil+ and then make it self sufficient to cover the long term restructured debt.


For me, it is a lucky, very lucky escape.

This is not exactly true re: US legal system. Debts owed to 777 are complicated by their source of the funds and their creditors. Payments “due” 777 have strings attached that will necessarily pull in their creditors and tax agencies where 777 is in breach of separate loans and/or defaults.

Source: I’m a US attorney. Specializing in banking, commercial bankruptcy, and collections.

 

[Connor]

The issue is the legal disputes in the USA centre around 777 pledging the same assets/securities, including their loans & security to Everton, as collateral to borrow money from multiple lenders. This means it is not legally clear who out of A-Cap, Leadenhall and others really owns the “777” debt, how much it is and who/how we should repay.

Moshiri/the club or a buyer could theoretically go to the US courts and let them decide who has jurisdiction and then try to negotiate with the appropriate US court to put the full money due (if clear) to repay the debt into escrow. They could also ask the courts to treat the debt as repaid (no more interest).

That is obviously complex, time consuming and the outcome uncertain. It ties up money indefinitely (that Moshiri does not have!) or it prevents a buyer negotiating with A-Cap/whoever to take a haircut on repayment. Only a buyer willing to clear this in full can go this route and even then it is not certain the courts would agree if they do not feel they can properly put a value on the debt or if the debt was given using funds obtained fraudulently and that the club/Moshiri could or should have known this.

In the meantime the buyer’s name gets caught up in all the legal shenanigans. The Friedkin Group decided the risks were too big once they clearly understood the facts (we only have parts of the picture). This is not the argument over price they had buying Roma. It is also not an issue that applies only to them. Any other buyer faces the same issues. They might see it differently. They might not.

TFG don’t want to be subpoenaed if/when this 777 stuff goes to trial/becomes a much bigger story. They’ve got money from incredibly murky places.

They’d be put on the stand and be asked if they knowingly know if Everton have taken money from fraudulent places

They want no part of that reputationally

Other than that, their due diligence was… spot on. That’s why the Roma friendly was booked. That’s why they had two tours of BMD.

 

[DanEFC92]

 

[atrottel]

When you say the other lenders? You mean those that 777 lent to or lenders that lent to 777?
If there is something that allows Everton to pay off the loan as a % of the debt if 777 go under say, then it could be in TFG’s interest to wait. Is that what you getting at?Then also the net value of the business can’t be determined until the debt value is finalized which means they can’t settle on a price.

No, I mean other creditors that are nothing to do with 777. If the 777 money is repaid in full, then why (they might think) should they also not be paid in full and on their original terms? Which kind of knocks the whole concept of debt restructuring on its head.

 

[Amw79]

What fresh hell is this?

 

[davek]

These were supposed to be 'serious people'. Remember that.

They KNEW all the baggage of 777/A-Cap/Leadenhall and Uncle Tom Cobley an' all before they started 'discussions' with Moshiri.

Now the 'serious people' with 'football club governance experience' have just added another layer of debt and got out.

The clever people among our support were championing that lot.

Bear that in mind when they tell you anything more about who's best owning and controlling this club.

The worst development there's ever been in modern football is the fan-finance 'experts'. They destroy other fans enjoyment in following a football club with their grandstanding, and at the end of the day they know about as much as the rest of us...absolute f.a.

I've said for ages: just watch the football. There's nothing for us to get engaged with or het-up about over ownership issues. It happens above our heads and always has done.

We'll get our new owners at some point. It's as sure as night follows day. And we wont end up like Leeds before it happens either.

Do yourself a favour: stop listening to the fan-financial experts. Stop mithering yourself with off-field affairs - we're not privy to them in any case, and neither is any 'expert' fan. Just focus on supporting the team.

 

[Cels]

Why does it need to serve good?

I feel it needs to be acknowledged that he bears as much responsibility as Moshiri for dumping us into this mess.

Not sure why you feel it needs to be aknowledged. We are where we are, banging on the same old worn-out Bill Kenwright drum seems a bit ridiculous to me. But if that's your thing, then fair enough, we're all different with different opinions.

 

[Cels]

These were supposed to be 'serious people'. Remember that.

They KNEW all the baggage of 777/A-Cap/Leadenhall and Uncle Tom Cobley an' all before they started 'discussions' with Moshiri.

Now the 'serious people' with 'football club governance experience' have just added another layer of debt and got out.

The clever people among our support were championing that lot.

Bear that in mind when they tell you anything more about who's best owning and controlling this club.

The worst development there's ever been in modern football is the fan-finance 'experts'. They destroy other fans enjoyment in following a football club with their grandstanding, and at the end of the day they know about as much as the rest of us...absolute f.a.

I've said for ages: just watch the football. There's nothing for us to get engaged with or het-up about over ownership issues. It happens above our heads and always has done.

We'll get our new owners at some point. It's as sure as night following day. And we wont end up like Leeds before it happens either.

Do yourself a favour: stop listening to the fan-financial experts. Stop mithering yourself with off-field affairs - we're not privy to them in any case, and neither is anyone other 'expert' fan. Just focus on supporting the team.

Welcome back

 

[brieverton]

This run of bad news and gut punches is just never ending at the moment. Sucking the last vestiges of love for the game out.

And that the daily course of supporting the club feels like you've just had to cram two terms worth of lecture notes for a postgrad in Corporate Finance, but the exam was yesterday.

It truly is draining.

It's not football.

 

[Ruairi77]

The issue is the legal disputes in the USA centre around 777 pledging the same assets/securities, including their loans & security to Everton, as collateral to borrow money from multiple lenders. This means it is not legally clear who out of A-Cap, Leadenhall and others really owns the “777” debt, how much it is and who/how we should repay.

Moshiri/the club or a buyer could theoretically go to the US courts and let them decide who has jurisdiction and then try to negotiate with the appropriate US court to put the full money due (if clear) to repay the debt into escrow. They could also ask the courts to treat the debt as repaid (no more interest).

That is obviously complex, time consuming and the outcome uncertain. It ties up money indefinitely (that Moshiri does not have!) or it prevents a buyer negotiating with A-Cap/whoever to take a haircut on repayment. Only a buyer willing to clear this in full can go this route and even then it is not certain the courts would agree if they do not feel they can properly put a value on the debt or if the debt was given using funds obtained fraudulently and that the club/Moshiri could or should have known this.

In the meantime the buyer’s name gets caught up in all the legal shenanigans. The Friedkin Group decided the risks were too big once they clearly understood the facts (we only have parts of the picture). This is not the argument over price they had buying Roma. It is also not an issue that applies only to them. Any other buyer faces the same issues. They might see it differently. They might not.

Clutching at straws here,
But could it be a tactic to get Moshiri to clear the 777 debt, then renegotiate the price with him?

 

[kev]

Do yourself a favour: stop listening to the fan-financial experts. Stop mithering yourself with off-field affairs - we're not privy to them in any case, and neither is any 'expert' fan. Just focus on supporting the team.

Sense at last. Welcome back MrK