The under 20 competition that is about to start.

[EvertruvianMan]

Well yeah, I think it was more a height thing tbh.

Don't think messi, villa, Owen, xavi, inesta etc would of made it with him all those yrs ago. Now clubs/coaches etc are praying for players like them coming thru.

In England we'v only just realised the last few yrs how wrong we'v got it. I remember the whole Spanish thing starting back in the early nighties, its took them a long time to get where they are today. It's a long rd for England!

The same last few years that the Germans and Bundesliga have gotten it so right? Them last few years?
The Spanish model cant and wont last - speed, physique, stature and a kamikaze work ethic can and has overcome it. Playing absolutely perfect football can beat anything, but until an entire side is telepathic and can move the ball around with the accuracy only a micrometer can measure then there will always be a place for the athletes to play the game, for the strongest to bully the weaker and for men mountains like Hulk, Luiz, Koller, Stam and legions similar to succeed in the game.

 

[nigelcoyb]

I know for most of you I'm referring to the stone-age but we've been gradually breeding genuine ability out the game since the 70s, our very own Gordon Lee used the derogatory term "tanner bob ball players" meaning loads had skill athleticism was what made the difference. What a fallacy....what a cnt.

The result is Beckham, Owen and Lampard tagged as the "golden generation" when I first heard it I nearly booted the telly they might be lovely lads, nice to animals and send gifts to grandma but they are so one dimensional.

The bar in this country scrapes the deck.

 

[d4ky]

Garbutt useless..

Stones half decent

Barkley glimpses of quality.. probably best player on the pitch for England. faith in him

Lundstram played one game and was poor, and Long didn't get enough time to impress

What have we learnt? not much

 

[d4ky]

that's no disrespect to evertons young players.. because the whole England side bar one or two were poor. England and its youth has been poor for years for various reasons, hense why we see a lack of English youth breaking into the premiership at a top standard.

 

[MickM86]

Garbutt useless..

Stones half decent

Barkley glimpses of quality.. probably best player on the pitch for England. faith in him

Lundstram played one game and was poor, and Long didn't get enough time to impress

What have we learnt? not much

We've learnt it's gonna be a lot harder to make it as a professional in this country from now on and get harder and harder

 

[swisso]

Let's be honest, we lost tonight because of a striker (Harry Kane) in woeful form missing a host of chances, some of them clear cut. There isn't a lot about him to suggest he's going to even make it to England U21s, never mind the senior setup!

The wider issue of England suffering at all levels is years away from seeing any kind of improvement on the pitch. The FA has talked the talk for near enough a decade now, but it's only in the past few years that any real changes have gone in at youth levels and i mean the real kids groups, not the late teens, because thats where the changes need to be made.

It'll be some time before those young boys make any appearance in an England shirt, so further patience is needed.

To a much lesser extent you can see it with our own youth groups at Everton. The players who enjoyed Finch Farm from the start of their footballing education are just coming through now and they're a really good group, one of the best in recent years (comparisons to Rooney, Rodwell etc shouldn't be made)

The U16s have even more exciting players than these and will have spent all their footballing years since age 10 at Finch Farm.

 

[d4ky]

Let's be honest, we lost tonight because of a striker (Harry Kane) in woeful form missing a host of chances, some of them clear cut. There isn't a lot about him to suggest he's going to even make it to England U21s, never mind the senior setup!

The wider issue of England suffering at all levels is years away from seeing any kind of improvement on the pitch. The FA has talked the talk for near enough a decade now, but it's only in the past few years that any real changes have gone in at youth levels and i mean the real kids groups, not the late teens, because thats where the changes need to be made.

It'll be some time before those young boys make any appearance in an England shirt, so further patience is needed.

To a much lesser extent you can see it with our own youth groups at Everton. The players who enjoyed Finch Farm from the start of their footballing education are just coming through now and they're a really good group, one of the best in recent years (comparisons to Rooney, Rodwell etc shouldn't be made)

The U16s have even more exciting players than these and will have spent all their footballing years since age 10 at Finch Farm.

Harry Kane was pretty poor to be fair

The U20's is basically for the players who were not good enough for the U21's. I didn't see anyone in the team tonight who looked like they would be premiership regulars. Barkley looked a class apart but playing alongside poor players it didn't tell us much about him.

 

[pablo_p]

Stones looked good in the first half. Faded ever so quickly in the second though.

Barkley really did look much better than anyone else out there. Greedy at times though.

 

[dannyboy]

Let's be honest, we lost tonight because of a striker (Harry Kane) in woeful form missing a host of chances, some of them clear cut. There isn't a lot about him to suggest he's going to even make it to England U21s, never mind the senior setup!

The wider issue of England suffering at all levels is years away from seeing any kind of improvement on the pitch. The FA has talked the talk for near enough a decade now, but it's only in the past few years that any real changes have gone in at youth levels and i mean the real kids groups, not the late teens, because thats where the changes need to be made.

It'll be some time before those young boys make any appearance in an England shirt, so further patience is needed.

To a much lesser extent you can see it with our own youth groups at Everton. The players who enjoyed Finch Farm from the start of their footballing education are just coming through now and they're a really good group, one of the best in recent years (comparisons to Rooney, Rodwell etc shouldn't be made)

The U16s have even more exciting players than these and will have spent all their footballing years since age 10 at Finch Farm.

Your knowledge of the youth game far exceeds mine, I'd be interested to know what type of changes they're implementing at younger level.

I worked at a school this year and we had our 10 year olds playing every single match on a full size pitch, what use that does any of the kids involved is beyond me. Hopefully in the more organised leagues they're using shorter sized pitches up to at least the age of 12?

As I've said previously in this thread even when English teams try to retain possession it just looks so awkward and uncomfortable. What are they doing to combat that? Telling them to simply pass the ball more isn't going to yield any results.

 

[Azzurri]

Garbutt useless..

Stones half decent

Barkley glimpses of quality.. probably best player on the pitch for England. faith in him

Lundstram played one game and was poor, and Long didn't get enough time to impress

What have we learnt? not much

Nah. Lundstram was played out of position and did quite well IMO. Stones looked good tonight. Garbutt was crap, though, to be fair.

 

[Azzurri]

Your knowledge of the youth game far exceeds mine, I'd be interested to know what type of changes they're implementing at younger level.

I worked at a school this year and we had our 10 year olds playing every single match on a full size pitch, what use that does any of the kids involved is beyond me. Hopefully in the more organised leagues they're using shorter sized pitches up to at least the age of 12?

As I've said previously in this thread even when English teams try to retain possession it just looks so awkward and uncomfortable. What are they doing to combat that? Telling them to simply pass the ball more isn't going to yield any results.

Right. IMO:

Get kids playing in smaller spaces at a younger age. Not necessarily when they're 5 and 6 because they need a bit of space as they can't control it as well, but until the age of 9, say, the pitch shouldn't get any bigger. Kid's games should be literally cramped I think. It'd teach them to keep the ball, pass it and move it about in addition to forcing them into controlling it well. From then on they should increase the pitch size by a small amount. I think full sized pitches should only be played on from the age of 14+ rather than 11+.

I think more emphasis should be put on off the ball movement, as well. You can see with the national teams at all age that they're all standing round like lemons when a team mate's got the ball.

They should also be taught to keep the ball patiently, but at the same time do things more quickly in the final third. Most England players want too many touches. You can see with even the likes of Iraq and Egypt that they can move the ball quickly and pull defenses apart - could Harry Kane do that?

 

[dannyboy]

Right. IMO:

Get kids playing in smaller spaces at a younger age. Not necessarily when they're 5 and 6 because they need a bit of space as they can't control it as well, but until the age of 9, say, the pitch shouldn't get any bigger. Kid's games should be literally cramped I think. It'd teach them to keep the ball, pass it and move it about in addition to forcing them into controlling it well. From then on they should increase the pitch size by a small amount. I think full sized pitches should only be played on from the age of 14+ rather than 11+.

I think more emphasis should be put on off the ball movement, as well. You can see with the national teams at all age that they're all standing round like lemons when a team mate's got the ball.

They should also be taught to keep the ball patiently, but at the same time do things more quickly in the final third. Most England players want too many touches. You can see with even the likes of Iraq and Egypt that they can move the ball quickly and pull defenses apart - could Harry Kane do that?

Agree with every word you wrote. Especially the part concerning our movement off the ball. That's been a major criticism of mine about the national team for as long as I can remember. We can look so static and rigid, and that coupled with a real dearth of creativity isn't a good mix.

Smaller pitches will definitely breed a better type of player, it makes the big kid who's hopeless but can lump the ball 30 yards surplus to requirements and encourages the smaller more gifted players to thrive.

It's more players of Wilshire's ilk that are needed if we're going to make a vast improvement on the world stage. He hasn't quite got up to levels he was at pre injury but he's still the type of midfielder we're crying out for. Someone who can influence a game for a full 90 minutes rather than produce one moment of brilliance every so often, which I think was the problem with the 'golden generation'.

 

[swisso]

Basically most of what Azurri said.

Smaller teams, smaller pitches, smaller goals and not actually playing 11 vs 11 until mid-teens.

Ultimately it's not the sole answer, but it's addressing at least some of the failings.

Have a read of the FA documents here > http://www.thefa.com/my-football/player/youth-football/youth-development-review

Particularly this one > http://www.thefa.com/~/media/my-football-resources/youth-dev-review/youth-leagues-ydr-booklet.ashx

These changes are only being phased in for this season, it's taken THIS long for the FA to turn words into actions.

 

[bluestevon]

Kind of a by product is that because of the system which means the grocks get chosen ahead of the more naturally gifted with ability but smaller etc, it also then has those that do shine through enough to get through have to play in the junior sides against a host of these lumps, wonder if its got anything to do with the amount of injuries the lighter smaller players tend to pick up over here...

 

[dannyboy]

Basically most of what Azurri said.

Smaller teams, smaller pitches, smaller goals and not actually playing 11 vs 11 until mid-teens.

Ultimately it's not the sole answer, but it's addressing at least some of the failings.

Have a read of the FA documents here > http://www.thefa.com/my-football/player/youth-football/youth-development-review

Particularly this one > http://www.thefa.com/~/media/my-football-resources/youth-dev-review/youth-leagues-ydr-booklet.ashx

These changes are only being phased in for this season, it's taken THIS long for the FA to turn words into actions.

Cheers mate.

I wonder if there's an argument for setting up more 3G pitches across the country. Too many of our fields are absolute bog standard, especially during the Winter when they practically become unplayable. That can't be conducive to a free flowing style of football.

I played a few games over in Spain with the school team and they were using the 3G surface, seems to work for them.