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This nurse Letby case

tonyhorne said:
Maybe she did. However, no-one saw her do it. Not even once. There is no CCTV evidence to support the claim. No-one even can really say how she did it, other than it was in a load of different ways all of which, we think, would probably have worked. We can't think how else these poor sick kids died so let's wobble our heads until we feel happy to blame the weird nurse ...
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Did anyone see Jeffrey Dahmer kill anyone, or the Yorkshire Ripper, or Myra Hindley? Nope. Guilty all of them.
 
Acrobat said:
Did anyone see Jeffrey Dahmer kill anyone, or the Yorkshire Ripper, or Myra Hindley? Nope. Guilty all of them.
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How many wards surrounded by other medical staff and family members of those receiving care were those examples preying within?

"overwhelming circumstantial evidence". Some of which has since been recategorised.
 
Rita_Poon said:
How many wards surrounded by other medical staff and family members of those receiving care were those examples preying within?

"overwhelming circumstantial evidence". Some of which has since been recategorised.
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I honestly don’t know the details as well as David Davis or people in this thread and I have no idea if in future she’ll be cleared or not . I just find trying cases by vox pop uncomfortable, I’m in no position and i
Honestly don’t believe David Davis or anyone else is to pontificate how she’s obviously not guilty .

A jury sat through months of evidence , she has exceptional legal representation and as far as I’m aware nobody is alleging any police misconduct it’s just a ‘bad verdict ‘ that many people don’t like . As I’ve said the jury managed to differentiate between the evidence offered and find guilt in some cases and not others, meaning they weren’t apparently overwhelmed by what was in front of them .

I also pretty firmly suspect if she looked like Beverly allit , shipman or chau she wouldn’t be half the cause célèbre.

Am I absolutely comfortable with all the evidence I’ve seen ? Not really but as I’ve said we don’t convict on articles or podcasts , If she’s cleared in future then I’ll have real sympathy for what she’s gone through obviously . I’m also certainly not saying people claiming they believe the verdicts are wrong don’t have that right just they don’t have the right to state it as fact .
 
Harryflashman said:
I honestly don’t know the details as well as David Davis or people in this thread and I have no idea if in future she’ll be cleared or not . I just find trying cases by vox pop uncomfortable, I’m in no position and i
Honestly don’t believe David Davis or anyone else is to pontificate how she’s obviously not guilty .

A jury sat through months of evidence , she has exceptional legal representation and as far as I’m aware nobody is alleging any police misconduct it’s just a ‘bad verdict ‘ that many people don’t like . As I’ve said the jury managed to differentiate between the evidence offered and find guilt in some cases and not others, meaning they weren’t apparently overwhelmed by what was in front of them .

I also pretty firmly suspect if she looked like Beverly allit , shipman or chau she wouldn’t be half the cause célèbre.

Am I absolutely comfortable with all the evidence I’ve seen ? Not really but as I’ve said we don’t convict on articles or podcasts , If she’s cleared in future then I’ll have real sympathy for what she’s gone through obviously . I’m also certainly not saying people claiming they believe the verdicts are wrong don’t have that right just they don’t have the right to state it as fact .
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Most sane people aren't saying the verdict is wrong, just that the prosecution used flawed evidence. This isn't coming from random people on the street. There is a group of medical professionals who have said the medical expert used by the prosecution made wild assumptions that don't stack up.

Interestingly, all of those medical professionals have said they have no view either way on whether she is guilty or not. They said it is for a jury to decide, but that the evidence presented to that jury was flawed. The prosecution expert called her a child killer.
 

trueblue84 said:
Most sane people aren't saying the verdict is wrong, just that the prosecution used flawed evidence. This isn't coming from random people on the street. There is a group of medical professionals who have said the medical expert used by the prosecution made wild assumptions that don't stack up.

Interestingly, all of those medical professionals have said they have no view either way on whether she is guilty or not. They said it is for a jury to decide, but that the evidence presented to that jury was flawed. The prosecution expert called her a child killer.
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David Davis an MP said she’s he’s 90 % sure she’s innocent, he genuinely has no clue at all about that . That’s what I’m talking about , that and other hyperbole in this thread .

If people say medical professionals say the evidence is flawed then I can accept that criticism and the court of appeal will view that and measure that evidence .
 
trueblue84 said:
I'd also point out that panorama suggested that they have seen medical records which point to her killing other babies. Didn't know the BBC were advisors to the CPS.
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Sounded like a stretch to me. And no doubt - like the rest of the evidence that convicted Letby - it'll be circumstantial.

Watching the conduct of the reporter Judith Moritz (a hack of the worst order who's done her best to demonise Letby from the off...and who used last night's programme to make it look like she was part of a tv drama with her producer acting out the part of Lewis to her Morse FFS....) she sounded like someone giving herself room to manoeuvre a u-turn - a career damage limitation exercise. A horrendous human being.
 
Harryflashman said:
David Davis an MP said she’s he’s 90 % sure she’s innocent, he genuinely has no clue at all about that . That’s what I’m talking about , that and other hyperbole in this thread .

If people say medical professionals say the evidence is flawed then I can accept that criticism and the court of appeal will view that and measure that evidence .
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David Davis is a former MP and was speaking on GB news when he said that. That's an immediate red flag. He's a crank. They're cranks. The people who watch it are cranks.
 
trueblue84 said:
Most sane people aren't saying the verdict is wrong, just that the prosecution used flawed evidence. This isn't coming from random people on the street. There is a group of medical professionals who have said the medical expert used by the prosecution made wild assumptions that don't stack up.

Interestingly, all of those medical professionals have said they have no view either way on whether she is guilty or not. They said it is for a jury to decide, but that the evidence presented to that jury was flawed. The prosecution expert called her a child killer.
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The desperate now are suggesting that anyone doubting the verdict are stating it as fact Letby is innocent. No one, as you rightly say, is saying that, just that the guilty verdict is unsafe. The only way some can back the judgement is to set up a straw man of others claiming innocence. It's never ever been about that. It's always been about the 'beyond reasonable doubt' acid test never having been passed in this case.

Defendants are released regularly because the jury cant get it over that line. They did in this case because of the enormous pressure exerted on them...many of them cracked at the trial's end, such was the dilemma they faced and the knowledge that the trial had a media whirlwind around it that forced them down only one route - especially when now discredited evidence pointed them in that direction too.

I have no criticism of the jury in that case. Most people would have cracked under the psychological stress. But they were forced to accept completely circumstantial evidence to convict someone for life. I think that's about the top and bottom of it.
 
trueblue84 said:
David Davis is a former MP and was speaking on GB news when he said that. That's an immediate red flag. He's a crank. They're cranks. The people who watch it are cranks.
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Like I say mate I think it’s really reasonable to question things and I think some of the evidence appeared to me to be circumstantial. I just find the Davis mindset irritating and coloured by their own political ambitions. Plus these days , and I’m not talking about you , thanks to tv shows and the internet every suicide is a murder every murder a wrongful conviction , every disappearance a conspiracy and it’s tiring .

That doesn’t mean reasoned debate and discussion doesn’t have a place .
 

trueblue84 said:
David Davis is a former MP and was speaking on GB news when he said that. That's an immediate red flag. He's a crank. They're cranks. The people who watch it are cranks.
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Rory Stewart and Alistair Campbell interview him on their rest is politics outlet. It pretty scary he is an MP and near posistion of power for so long. It even scared them how flippant he was with fact and truths.
 
Harryflashman said:
I honestly don’t know the details as well as David Davis or people in this thread and I have no idea if in future she’ll be cleared or not . I just find trying cases by vox pop uncomfortable, I’m in no position and i
Honestly don’t believe David Davis or anyone else is to pontificate how she’s obviously not guilty .

A jury sat through months of evidence , she has exceptional legal representation and as far as I’m aware nobody is alleging any police misconduct it’s just a ‘bad verdict ‘ that many people don’t like . As I’ve said the jury managed to differentiate between the evidence offered and find guilt in some cases and not others, meaning they weren’t apparently overwhelmed by what was in front of them .

I also pretty firmly suspect if she looked like Beverly allit , shipman or chau she wouldn’t be half the cause célèbre.

Am I absolutely comfortable with all the evidence I’ve seen ? Not really but as I’ve said we don’t convict on articles or podcasts , If she’s cleared in future then I’ll have real sympathy for what she’s gone through obviously . I’m also certainly not saying people claiming they believe the verdicts are wrong don’t have that right just they don’t have the right to state it as fact .
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David Davis? I thought davek was short for David Kelly or something?
 

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