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2024/25 Tim Iroegbunam

Walken said:
The points we have and haven't picked up don't really suggest this is the case with midfield partnerships.
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Who was playing CB during that period? And how many games did Tim play with Keane last season, when we lost them all?

How many points had we earned when Tim was playing against Bournemouth before he got exhausted, and Dyche didnt sub as usual? We have allowed 8 goals after the 70th minute and scored 0. How is that the fault of the starters, who played well for 70 minutes, and not the subs(or lack thereof) for the last 20 minutes?

Blaming Tim for Dyche and Keane is a great way to ensure continued losses. In 3 years we have won exactly 2 games Michael Keane played in, and thats not a typo.
 
PeregrineT said:
Who was playing CB during that period? And how many games did Tim play with Keane last season, when we lost them all?

How many points had we earned when Tim was playing against Bournemouth before he got exhausted, and Dyche didnt sub as usual? We have allowed 8 goals after the 70th minute and scored 0. How is that the fault of the starters, who played well for 70 minutes, and not the subs(or lack thereof) for the last 20 minutes?

Blaming Tim for Dyche and Keane is a great way to ensure continued losses. In 3 years we have won exactly 2 games Michael Keane played in, and thats not a typo.
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Keane played for the first point, brainthwaite for the first win, a clear improvement.

We didn't earn any points against Bournemouth, or in any of the other games, that has to be assessed without the usual bias if we want results.

Don't get so sensitive, it's pretty to anyone willing to be remotely objective that Doucoures energy, experience and ability to cover full backs are needed at the moment. I don't think there's much doubt that Tim will be a better player, but right now he doesn't understand midfield at this level in a 2. Placing him alongside Mangala would feel too open.

But, of course we can't possibly suggest anything that doesn't result in crying about Dyche for a few pages.
 
PeregrineT said:
He has been absolutely better than Doucoure in that role this season, puts us at a disadvantage every time we play Doucoure there instead. Hoping he makes it back in there somehow. Im not saying Dyche is throwing him under the bus for his poor lack of subs in the Bournemouth game but....Im not saying he isnt. Our key this season(based on how we are set up) is the two midfielders being dominant and tidy on the ball.
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….’better than Doucoure’ doesn’t mean ‘more effective than Doucoure’.

I get the impression Dyche is keen to transition Doucoure out of the side but the stats of results with and without him posted by @Neiler were a bit of an eye opener.

Dyche needs to find that right formula, a successful balance with Doucoure on the bench. He’s not found it yet.
 

Eggs said:
….’better than Doucoure’ doesn’t mean ‘more effective than Doucoure’.

I get the impression Dyche is keen to transition Doucoure out of the side but the stats of results with and without him posted by @Neiler were a bit of an eye opener.

Dyche needs to find that right formula, a successful balance with Doucoure on the bench. He’s not found it yet.
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Catcher came up with a great money ball analogy yesterday mate and maybe conveys the point I was making and perhaps coveys Docoures contribution to outcomes and extrapolates the stats and benefit:

“Like imagine that scene with the scouts. People saying "he can't pass" "he's 33" "he's lumbered" "his technique is bad" and Brad Pitt saying "we win 57% more points with him in the team" (that's a made up number but you get my gist). For whatever reason, he clearly makes a difference.”.
 
Walken said:
Keane played for the first point, brainthwaite for the first win, a clear improvement.

We didn't earn any points against Bournemouth, or in any of the other games, that has to be assessed without the usual bias if we want results.

Don't get so sensitive, it's pretty to anyone willing to be remotely objective that Doucoures energy, experience and ability to cover full backs are needed at the moment. I don't think there's much doubt that Tim will be a better player, but right now he doesn't understand midfield at this level in a 2. Placing him alongside Mangala would feel too open.

But, of course we can't possibly suggest anything that doesn't result in crying about Dyche for a few pages.
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I was asking questions, if that bothers you its not me whos sensitive mate.

And you say "to anyone willing to be remotely objective that Doucoures energy, experience and ability to cover full backs are needed at the moment.", okay, so now you have ended the discussion without answering any of my questions, because you have now declared that no one can have an opposing view.

Again, you didnt answer the important questions to be "objective" without the "usual bias" as you put it. How many games did Tim play with Keane last season, when we lost them all? How come our two best performances outside of 10 minutes of McNeil were when Tim was playing against Bournemouth and Villa? How are the 8-0 goals after the 70th minute the fault of the starters who played well up to that point? Giving Doucoure credit for McNeil and Branthwaite seems quite something.
 
Eggs said:
….’better than Doucoure’ doesn’t mean ‘more effective than Doucoure’.

I get the impression Dyche is keen to transition Doucoure out of the side but the stats of results with and without him posted by @Neiler were a bit of an eye opener.

Dyche needs to find that right formula, a successful balance with Doucoure on the bench. He’s not found it yet.
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Unfortunately stats can be easily abused intentionally or unintentionally, and way too much credit is being given for 2 poor performances. Lampard was sacked 18 months ago, and since then Doucoure has played almost every match:

In 22/23 we did not win a single Match with Doucoure playing for 7 months. Not until February 4th. The points with and without him were negligible at best that year.

In 23/24 he only missed 6 matches, two against Man City, two against Tottenham. Not only that, but our entire midfield was devastated at that point in time as we also did without Gana, so that Gomes and McNeil had to play as CMs. One shouldn't give him credit for missing our toughest matches in the middle of an injury crisis.

If you want to isolate results, his 4 full seasons here have included 3 relegation survivals in 3 straight years. Everyone seems to agree he looks poor, and our results are really poor with him.
 
Eggs said:
….’better than Doucoure’ doesn’t mean ‘more effective than Doucoure’.

I get the impression Dyche is keen to transition Doucoure out of the side but the stats of results with and without him posted by @Neiler were a bit of an eye opener.

Dyche needs to find that right formula, a successful balance with Doucoure on the bench. He’s not found it yet.
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Lampard seemed to dislike Doucoure as well, and we were hardly pulling up any trees were we?

I'll maintain, he doesn't look particularly pleasing, but the ground he covered and the way he covers it will be invaluable for his teammates.
 

catcherintherye said:
Lampard seemed to dislike Doucoure as well, and we were hardly pulling up any trees were we?

I'll maintain, he doesn't look particularly pleasing, but the ground he covered and the way he covers it will be invaluable for his teammates.
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I think we are all in agreement we need an upgrade to progress, but some desperate stuff is being chatted by the agenda driven angryheads. He's an important squad member right now until we progress.

Calling out he idiot lampard is a plus for me, apparently he was standing up for gana as lampards bizarre tactics set the midfield an impossible task with all 3 departments hideously separated.
 
Walken said:
I think we are all in agreement we need an upgrade to progress, but some desperate stuff is being chatted by the agenda driven angryheads. He's an important squad member right now until we progress.

Calling out he idiot lampard is a plus for me, apparently he was standing up for gana as lampards bizarre tactics set the midfield an impossible task with all 3 departments hideously separated.
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I think what happens is a lot of nuance is lost.

Like I want an upgrade too, and Doucoure was awful at Tottenham. I thought he was good at Leicester, and Ok in the 2nd half v Palace. We look more solid in midfield with him in.

Like McNeil he has lots of limitations, but some positives too.

Honestly, I think Doucoures minutes need to be managed, and Dyche won't do that, he will probably flog him into the ground again, but a sensible manager would use him and Gana properly.
 
Hard not play Mangala. thought he was very good on saturday. who we play with him is tough. Doucs was ok saturday but maybe garner good option and Tim looked good as well when hes played. Gueye behind all for me at present as gives the ball away to much .. Get Young out and nail the other DM and this a much improved team .. Chermiti amd broja to come as well. feeling much more positive now … could be the moretti though !
 
catcherintherye said:
I think what happens is a lot of nuance is lost.

Like I want an upgrade too, and Doucoure was awful at Tottenham. I thought he was good at Leicester, and Ok in the 2nd half v Palace. We look more solid in midfield with him in.

Like McNeil he has lots of limitations, but some positives too.

Honestly, I think Doucoures minutes need to be managed, and Dyche won't do that, he will probably flog him into the ground again, but a sensible manager would use him and Gana properly.
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Would agree with all of this to be fair, it's definitely one of Dyches faults that he wants the same 11 playing 90 mins too often
 

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