Time for change

[barneygumble]

Its not all on him . I totally understand that. But if a team keeps losing games it is the manager who loses his job. And we are currently on a terrible run . Personally I think the Derby will make or break him. Who could we get . I don't know . But if results don't improve the question will have to be asked

Oh I’m not defending Benitez really, but he’s been given an impossible job.

He was always going to be controversial and he needed to get off to a good start.

I think the derby is going to be a disaster, everything which needed to go for him, hasn’t and the place will be toxic.

It’s avoided by avoiding appointing Benitez, but I think the reason everyone is so down and disconnected from a Everton at present is cause the ownership ignored the fans, ignored history and chose this.

 

[Runub]

Personally I think us getting beat by Brentford on Saturday will be the final straw for many and the derby will seal his fate.

There is no way we will get beat Saturday....the game is Sunday. That is when we get beat

 

[Goat]

Serious question . Since moyes left how much do you think we have spent on hiring and sacking managers ?

Last time I worked it out it was 52m, but that was a just after Silva I think.

 

[AndyC]

We hit rock bottom the moment we appointed him. Nothing even against him just the owner thinking that the appointment was the one we needed.

As for giving people time, in theory its spot on, but it doesn't work like that. The fans are not sitting there looking at spreadsheets and weighing things up carefully, it's an emotive sport, they will turn on him because they don't like him in the first place. You cant stop that, it's just being human.

Appointing him was stupid and incredibly risky, but to compound that by getting him in when we had no money to spend and a rubbish squad was just crazy the more you look at it.

He would surely have figured that out when he was only given the money to sign Gray in the summer.
There'll be no money in January - unless we sell.
And I'll go as far to suggest there'll be no money next summer unless we sell.
Any money saved on contracts ending and salaries no longer being paid will be eaten up in trying to repair the balance sheet and accounts.
We need to face up to the realities of the state the club is in... we're in breach or incredibly close to breaching the rules on STCC/FFP and with Moshiri seemingly only bothered about BMD and leaving our 'revered board' to run the shop, we are to put it in a nutshell - financially knackered !!

 

[WilliamPerry]

Last time I worked it out it was 52m, but that was a just after Silva I think.

Must be close to £75m then now .

 

[Goat]

Must be close to £75m then now .

Well last 2 managers have been "free", if we ignore the 20m or so in wages we paid them, the 52m didnt include managers, so it must be about 100m so far, all told.

 

[WilliamPerry]

Well last 2 managers have been "free", if we ignore the 20m or so in wages we paid them.

Surely they got a signing on fee ?

 

[blue to the bone]

Agre

Oh I’m not defending Benitez really, but he’s been given an impossible job.

He was always going to be controversial and he needed to get off to a good start.

I think the derby is going to be a disaster, everything which needed to go for him, hasn’t and the place will be toxic.

It’s avoided by avoiding appointing Benitez, but I think the reason everyone is so down and disconnected from a Everton at present is cause the ownership ignored the fans, ignored history and chose this.

Agree. But the board aren't going to sack themselves. So one outcome is more likely

 

[Ghost Rider]

We hit rock bottom the moment we appointed him. Nothing even against him just the owner thinking that the appointment was the one we needed.

As for giving people time, in theory its spot on, but it doesn't work like that. The fans are not sitting there looking at spreadsheets and weighing things up carefully, it's an emotive sport, they will turn on him because they don't like him in the first place. You cant stop that, it's just being human.

Appointing him was stupid and incredibly risky, but to compound that by getting him in when we had no money to spend and a rubbish squad was just crazy the more you look at it.

On the basis of no money and a poor squad, then the job is impossible for anyone.

So sacking or keeping the manager is neither here nor there really, if you don't have the players to improve to begin with then how can you find someone better? That can only be time proven , and transfer records.

Essentially this summer we told benitez he could pick one player for the squad but it would have to be free. That is levels of poor service we haven't seen since the boards favourite member told Moyes he had no money to spend for 2 years.

Either we commit to s young manager no matter what or we accept who we have and muster through. The former needs time and Rafael isn't that, but he is also succesful , far more than most of the managers hired by moshiri.

 

[Goat]

Surely they got a signing on fee ?

Of course, we also would have had to pay huge Agent fees.

 

[Bluelenny1984]

Comes down to one thing and one thing only, where do we go when we sack him??

We have have stop this cycle of sacking managers and having no plan or direction afterwards. We have to stick with someone and give them a chance to fix this team.

Its been said time and again on these boards the team isn't good enough, and more worrying than all that they don't seem to care, no fight or passion between them. We got rolled by a top side today, and I can accept that if I see us fighting for every yard but that's not what I saw today and not for the first time this season and against perceived lesser teams.

The poor mentality and poor leadership at this club runs deep, truth is its not rafas fault, sacking him now in my opinion would only bring more instability.

 

[PhilRegan]

Patience is for losers

No one should be patient right now. Its such a ridiculous argument and one that is part of the reasons we've gone 27 years without a trophy.

If something isn't working then change it. Patience is a laughable argument based on zero evidence.

Chelsea would definitely have won the CL last year if they had been "patient"....

Totally agree.

Tottenham sacked nuno
Norwich sacked their hero
Villa sacked their hero
United didn't work for him
Newcastle or Watford didn't want to be that patient in the end either.

 

[Papa Shango]

He would surely have figured that out when he was only given the money to sign Gray in the summer.
There'll be no money in January - unless we sell.
And I'll go as far to suggest there'll be no money next summer unless we sell.
Any money saved on contracts ending and salaries no longer being paid will be eaten up in trying to repair the balance sheet and accounts.
We need to face up to the realities of the state the club is in... we're in breach or incredibly close to breaching the rules on STCC/FFP and with Moshiri seemingly only bothered about BMD and leaving our 'revered board' to run the shop, we are to put it in a nutshell - financially knackered !!

Of course Benitez knew.

He is a manager who has always needed money though (like most of them). Fans don't care about that by and large they wont look too in depth about what is happening at the cub, all they will see is we are losing every week playing insipid football with a manager who they already hated.

The fans will not face up to the realities, it's not for them to worry about, they pay their money and want to be entertained a bit.

 

[Papa Shango]

On the basis of no money and a poor squad, then the job is impossible for anyone.

So sacking or keeping the manager is neither here nor there really, if you don't have the players to improve to begin with then how can you find someone better? That can only be time proven , and transfer records.

Essentially this summer we told benitez he could pick one player for the squad but it would have to be free. That is levels of poor service we haven't seen since the boards favourite member told Moyes he had no money to spend for 2 years.

Either we commit to s young manager no matter what or we accept who we have and muster through. The former needs time and Rafael isn't that, but he is also succesful , far more than most of the managers hired by moshiri.

He was successful years ago when he has money at big clubs, one of which was our hated rivals where he is loved.

Quite why Moshiri thinks that ticks our boxes I will never know.

It's not an impossible job as such. Depends what the job is, right know the job is to keep us on an even keel for a bit and reign in the spending right?

Again why did Moshiri think that a hated manager who has always done his best work with money to spend would be the man to do that?

I am not personally against Benitez, but what I think doesn't matter, loads are so he was destined to fail and a ridiculous appointment.

That's Moshiri for you though.

 

[JohnHoyte]

M

The problem with the way football is now is that many people want instant gratification for their opinion, one way or another. In our case people want us to sack benitez iregardless to the situation at the club.

You could argue it is an extremely toxic attitude to have , to dismiss the quality of the squad or ignore it entirely for that instant gratification.

When you look back, Silva's first season in charge, we had at least a 2 month period , could have been 3 months even that we didn't win. This is exactly what he did at Watford the year before which led to him being sacked. People generally wanted to give him more time , and he was then sacked 10 months later.

Martinez third season in charge. We went from September to February with the only wins in the league against the bottom 3 , one of which (Newcastle) only just stayed up. So it was 6 wins in 5 months before we beat one of them again and then beat someone else. Martinez was then not long sacked.

The point I'm trying to make here is that these managers also got time before they were sacked but they had something that benitez hasn't had, money. Silva had 2 summers before he wasn't good enough. Martinez had a further 3 months before he was sacked. All these managers had money to spend before they were deemed not good enough. Martinez even brought in niasse on his way out for what was a big amount for us at the time.

So if we sack managers after giving them time and money , how on earth can we sack a manager who hasn't had either? Even better , is tasked with achieving better with a team that is made up of past failures that have resulted in sackings by the ones who signed them?

If we sacked benitez now , without time or money, this club has hit rock bottom as far as I am concerned. There is no coming back from that , to not give a manager time or money to even stamp his own image onto the pitch. It's laying the blame on the manager officially and not the years of mismanagement elsewhere. It won't matter anymore the quality of the player we sign , no matter what the blame will only be left with the manager.

So expect many more iwobis at the club because a manager without time or money being blamed justifies the 28 million spent on simply being managed poorly.

Agree with this, and if they do sack Benitez in the near future when it’s obvious the problems at the club aren’t of his making, then it suggests they still don’t actually understand what the real causes of the problems at the club actually are