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2019/20 Tom Davies

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Kever10 said:
1. I have no doubt that if they sign for Atletico Madrid, or Roma, or Lyon, they may cost that amount, but I am fairly certain if they join any of the top 5 or 6 in the Premier league, or Everton, they will cost a lot more. Its just the way it goes.

2. As I said, you may not rate Davies, but him being English still adds a premium. See Pickford, Keane, Maguire, Sancho, Zaha, Walker, Stones, Carol, Ibe, Ings, Solankę, etc.

3. Gbamin was practically an unknown outside of the leagues he played in, and we signed him unchallenged. He may have had a decent reputation in scouting circles, but again, Davies is 2 years younger and playing in an arguably stronger league. The goals point is moot, as its not like Davies has been employed as an AM or winger. He has often been an anchor or link player, in a very static midfield, and has been asked to play a variety of roles.

4. I'm not sure that's how it works. If we receive £12m for Davies, who has a £30k pw contract for 3 more years, and no transfer fee, to us, he is a £4m liability. If we sell him for £12m we have £12m to spend for 1 year, which includes fee and wages. If we sign someone for £12m and on £60k for 5 years, that costs us about £27m, or £5.5m per year for 5 years. Selling Davies and buying another player for the same price and on on the same wage would cost us £4m per year for 5 years.

5. See above.

6. Keeping Sigurdsson for another year would cost us just over £14m. Davies for the same time will cost about 1/10th of that. The difference between the 2 is nowhere near that level. In fact, there's an argument that Davies is more useful, as he is adaptable and has played several different roles, as opposed to Gylfi the "he needs to play number 10 to work" Ghost.

I agree that long term, the goal should be to improve the overall level of the squad, including people who have under performed, such as Davies. But in the short term, we are restricted to what we can afford to do with FFP and as Carlo has already suggested, it will be Evolution, not Revolution.

Selling our younger, lower earners, and keeping our older, higher earners, will mean that Evolution will take even longer, and will be a hell of a lot more expensive. I would also like to see how Davies can adapt and evolve under a proper manager. It's too late for the likes of Sigurdsson and Delph. I don't believe it's too late for Davies.
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siggy is woeful. No question. But given the game time he’ll get the odd assist or goal. Something Davies won’t.
 
In a way, part of me thinks that we're the ones who've utterly crapped on his development. At 18 he was riding on the crest of a wave and most of us thought he could be the club's future.. but the off-the-field crap ever since probably hasn't helped the kid at all.

Maybe even he is starting to think that he may need to move on? if he feels as though the fans have given up on him then a part of me would actually feel quite sorry for the kid, being a big blue and that. Can't feel great to not only fail at your boyhood club but also for the fans to resent you.

The point does remain though that he simply hasn't, and doesn't look likely, to kick on at Everton though.
 
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Everton return to training as Jonjoe Kenny back with Blues squad

Details and list of players who trained today at first Everton session of pre-season at Finch Farm
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk www.liverpoolecho.co.uk


There was no Richarlison, as expected, Dominic Calvert-Lewin, Bernard or Tom Davies in the images released by the club but Kenny, who spent last season on loan with Schalke, was part of Carlo Ancelotti's session.
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Make of that what you will. :coffee:

Failed to turn up for preseason. How can anyone still defend him?
 

Zatara said:
1: Brands is now known for being a penny pincher (Mina / Gabriel) and Atletico are paying big money for players. Look at Joao Felix for example and some of their other signings.

2: I think weve got the risk now of keeping Davies and seeing his value further decline. If im not wrong:

Gomes / Gbamin 4 years left
Davies 3 years left
Delph / Sigurdsson 2 years left

At the moment Davies is still seen as a young player but soon he will lose that tag and just become a 5th choice option. My guess would be a drop from £12-15mil to £8-10mil in value.

We cant pick and choose who we get offers for and he may do a Holgate under Ancelotti and suddenly become good. But weve been saying this about him for 2 seasons now...at what point do you twist?


3: All im saying about goals is that Gbamin played mostly Centre back and defensive midfield for Mainz. He only had 1 season at Centre midfield in a box to box role so its a small sample size.

Davies wants to be an attacking midfielder which i dont think he has the traits for. Also on goals, we ideally need a centre mid to be hitting 8-10 goals a season. Lets say Davies is 2nd choice for that position will he score even 5 goals a season or affect games? So far hes not shown any signs of doing this.

4: Yes we would still need to cover the £12mil per year over 4 years to bring in the £60mil worth of players. However for FFP thats how its calculated, if we have funds (which we do through Moshiri) then our only 2 barriers are FFP for fees and wages. Selling Davies covers the first issue, of course selling Sigurdsson for £25mil would solve both problems but i cant see us even breaking even at £16.8mil.

Thats the issue. Dont forget that we can also use other income streams each season to boost our FFP gains to solve the £12mil a year example but immediately Davies solves our issue on fees.

Btw Sigurdsson £42mil ÷5 = £8.4mil × 2 years left on contract = £16.8mil.

If we sold Davies for £12mil and then sold Sigurdsson for £10mil we would be at £16.8mil - £10mil = £-6.8mil. Then add the £12mil = £5.2mil.

We then have both Davies and Sigurdsson off the books + their wages and £5.2mil × 5 = £26mil to use on a player(s). Add on Schneiderlin + Dowell + Hornby fees and our £5.2mil would be around £10mil which would allow us £50mil to spend.

The wages saved here are huge, lets say £140k Sigurdsson + £120k Schneiderlin + £40k Davies/Hornby = £300k or £15.6mil a year.

As long as the fees we use are sensible + the salaries are low (the model were apparently using) then we should cover the transfers incoming with wages saved on the overall books.

Tbh id be trying to do deals on all our midfielders centrally and wide with only Gordon safe.

The only others ones safe for me would be Gbamin (unsellable) and Walcott (one year left as rotation).
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Kever10 has the right of it here mate, absoultley doenst make financial sense to sell Davies, given our situation, hes gold dust. An active squad member, on low wages, with no amort on a long contract.

Beyond that you are looking at subjective judgement as a player, some people will feel he is at his appex now and that not good enough. Some will feel he has plenty of headroom to develop and if he does 12 mill is a bad deal.

Personally full tilt i think hes a player and one who if you could get consistency of his best performance out of him consistently has a big contribution to make. Think of his best game for Everton and he has had them that is what we should aim for him to be week in week out development wise. The job of work for a coach is to enable him to develop to get that every week, at just gone 22, we are under no pressure.

Kever10, makes a very good point in that since his break through he has played under 6 managers conservatively in 4 years, that is awful for his development and not an environment to grow and the squad has been changeable. What stands out to me is that any and every manager who has come in has rated him, he hasn't been farmed out or loaned like Dowell, Kenny or Holgate, you have to ask yourself why? Its clear everyone sees a talent in him at PL standard, perhaps unfulfilled at this point, but that would be my analysis.

Im curious to see how he develops with a bit of continuity of coaching and a stable environment over the next couple of years, at that stage he will be 24, hes a baby really in footballing terms, hes been around so long people expect him to be the apex of his potential already, hes still very young, with 100 PL appearances under his belt, someone like Holgate has 60 odd.
 
Neiler said:
Kever10 has the right of it here mate, absoultley doenst make financial sense to sell Davies, given our situation, hes gold dust. An active squad member, on low wages, with no amort on a long contract.

Beyond that you are looking at subjective judgement as a player, some people will feel he is at his appex now and that not good enough. Some will feel he has plenty of headroom to develop and if he does 12 mill is a bad deal.

Personally full tilt i think hes a player and one who if you could get consistency of his best performance out of him consistently has a big contribution to make. Think of his best game for Everton and he has had them that is what we should aim for him to be week in week out development wise. The job of work for a coach is to enable him to develop to get that every week, at just gone 22, we are under no pressure.

Kever10, makes a very good point in that since his break through he has played under 6 managers conservatively in 4 years, that is awful for his development and not an environment to grow and the squad has been changeable. What stands out to me is that any and every manager who has come in has rated him, he hasn't been farmed out or loaned like Dowell, Kenny or Holgate, you have to ask yourself why? Its clear everyone sees a talent in him at PL standard, perhaps unfulfilled at this point, but that would be my analysis.

Im curious to see how he develops with a bit of continuity of coaching and a stable environment over the next couple of years, at that stage he will be 24, hes a baby really in footballing terms, hes been around so long people expect him to be the apex of his potential already, hes still very young, with 100 PL appearances under his belt, someone like Holgate has 60 odd.
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Thats all fine and a valid opinion, just as @Kever10 made.

Short and sweet question for both of you;

"What happens if no acceptable offers come in for Delph, Gomes or Sigurdsson as we then have 5 midfielders* if we keep Davies"


*as surely Gbamin wont be going anywhere and ignoring Besic/Bamingime/Connolly.
 
Zatara said:
Thats all fine and a valid opinion, just as @Kever10 made.

Short and sweet question for both of you;

"What happens if no acceptable offers come in for Delph, Gomes or Sigurdsson as we then have 5 midfielders* if we keep Davies"


*as surely Gbamin wont be going anywhere and ignoring Besic/Bamingime/Connolly.
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There are no serious arguments to be made for keeping Davies now Zat.
 

Toffe3m4n said:
That just says to me that the four whom weren't there was 'as expected'? o_O
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Not really, because even by the Echo's horrific drafting standards, it would be:


As expected, there was no Richarlison, Dominic Calvert-Lewin, Bernard or Tom Davies in the images released by the club but Kenny, who spent last season on loan with Schalke, was part of Carlo Ancelotti's session.
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orly said:
Not really, because even by the Echo's horrific drafting standards, it would be:
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Yeah, the wording is weird, but it still read what it likely meant that all of them not being there was as expected.

What's the deal with Bernard then mate? looks like Iwobi showed up as well...
 
Zatara said:
Thats all fine and a valid opinion, just as @Kever10 made.

Short and sweet question for both of you;

"What happens if no acceptable offers come in for Delph, Gomes or Sigurdsson as we then have 5 midfielders* if we keep Davies"


*as surely Gbamin wont be going anywhere and ignoring Besic/Bamingime/Connolly.
Click to expand...
Zatara.

Keeping Davies will have absolutely no bearing on what happens with Delph, Sigurdsson or Gomes.
The manager and DOF will have decided on the players they want to keep in their squad ( I believe the manager like Davies and will want to keep him). The players that are being kept to form the squad are not for sale.
It is like saying we can't sell Tosun so we will sell Richarlison because we can find a buyer for him.

It is my opinion that Davies will be kept... but, that is all it is... my opinion. I have seen absolutely nothing yet to suggest otherwise.

But, the truth is that none of us have a clue what the manager sees as his midfield group going forward.
 
Zatara said:
Thats all fine and a valid opinion, just as @Kever10 made.

Short and sweet question for both of you;

"What happens if no acceptable offers come in for Delph, Gomes or Sigurdsson as we then have 5 midfielders* if we keep Davies"


*as surely Gbamin wont be going anywhere and ignoring Besic/Bamingime/Connolly.
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I think we will roll with Davies, Delph, Gomes, Allan and Gbamin, mate. Allan just comes in for Morgans squad place, in a player trade. If one does go it will be Delph but i doubt he will.

Gbamin wont be back until next year. I dont expect any of those to leave if im honest.

Personally i dont see Gylfi as a central midfielder, he went there last year at a pinch, but he will play more advanced, i dont expect him to leave either, but i wouldnt fall over in shock either if he did as i think there would be market for him.

Besic, Benni and Connolly we will hope will go in some shape or form.
 

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