2020/21 Tom Davies

[Lloydystark]

I think Tom has a football brain but lacks the physicality to take his game to the next level.

Well that’s good because he’s 22 and can build his strength up, where as the footballing brain if you ain’t got you ain’t got it...

 

[degsy]

I thought Bernard was sound and he got worse.
I thought Iwobi was poor and he got better

 

[Stephenlloyd]

He’s been played as a DCM, ACM, RW and RB.

it’s interesting that a less experienced player is expected to be more versatile than the seasoned pros.

He has had some poor spells in a very poor midfield, but no worse than the other more experienced players. He does need to learn and improve, but at 22, nes worth the punt.

He’s played over a 100 games, do you really think Ancelotti is going to give him 40 games over the next 12months just to see if he can reach that level.

No youngster is getting that opportunity at a club that wants champions league football. Look at Foden, miles a head of Davies, yet is still only a bit part at city. Jones at Liverpool again, class above Davies and has played a bit recently because of injuries. Next season at 21 he will probably still be a squad player, when all their players are back.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

Well that’s good because he’s 22 and can build his strength up, where as the footballing brain if you ain’t got you ain’t got it...

Where was his brain on Saturday, with the penalty. On his heels in his own box, not knowing what’s around him.

Look at Leicester last season, he cost us the game. Trying fancy flicks in his own half and trying to dribble past players in injury time and losing the ball, Leicester break and score the winner.

 

[Blue toffee]

Tom Davies will improve & become a competent premier league player...

He can continue to progress under the stewardship of Ancelotti & improve playing & learning from the likes of Allan etc etc...

Given his age and wage and lack of injuries, he’s the least of our problems at the moment.

 

[ArtetaMoney]

Let’s face it, he’s crap.

But, as people have said on here what can we really expect from a 5th or 6th choice CM?

I’d like to see us eventually phase him out as he’s a liability when he does play, but I’d probably choose him over Gomes at the minute cos he’s another liability.

 

[HumbleWedbetters]

He’s played over a 100 games, do you really think Ancelotti is going to give him 40 games over the next 12months just to see if he can reach that level.

No youngster is getting that opportunity at a club that wants champions league football. Look at Foden, miles a head of Davies, yet is still only a bit part at city. Jones at Liverpool again, class above Davies and has played a bit recently because of injuries. Next season at 21 he will probably still be a squad player, when all their players are back.

Who is Tom Davies being played ahead of that he shouldn't be?

You see, if someone went out and bought a Mercedes and a Range Range rover but couldn't use either because they are unreliable or off the road then wouldn't it be a bit daft of them to criticise the run around that was given to them to get from a to b.

I'd be spending more time looking at why the range rover won't drive through a muddy puddle or why the BMW conks out on the motorway rather than asking why the toyata Yaris only has 70 horse power and no air conditioning.

It's footballing snobbery. The lad could go to another club like Burnley, earn a signing on fee and play every week rather than be 6th choice for us.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Allan and Doucoure are a step in the right direction and hopefully Gbamin will add to that also but the days of a Fabregas type of midfielder strolling around and spraying balls about are over. Mourinho Guardiola and Klopp have changed the game now. Pace and power are king to give the team a platform to then play football.

I would imagine that young versions of Xavi and Iniesta could have played keep away all day in today's game.

Absent that level of precision, you do have to match the physicality of the other teams in the Prem.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

Who is Tom Davies being played ahead of that he shouldn't be?

You see, if someone went out and bought a Mercedes and a Range Range rover but couldn't use either because they are unreliable or off the road then wouldn't it be a bit daft of them to criticise the run around that was given to them to get from a to b.

I'd be spending more time looking at why the range rover won't drive through a muddy puddle or why the BMW conks out on the motorway rather than asking why the toyata Yaris only has 70 horse power and no air conditioning.

It's footballing snobbery. The lad could go to another club like Burnley, earn a signing on fee and play every week rather than be 6th choice for us.

But you wouidnt need the Toyota Yaris, because the BMW garage will give you another one, to run around in while it’s getting fixed.

Like when Doucoure or Allan can’t play you bring someone in of a similar level.

And the potless Neighbours down the road IE Burnley, can have the Yaris.

 

[Bluestar]

He’s played over a 100 games, do you really think Ancelotti is going to give him 40 games over the next 12months just to see if he can reach that level.

No youngster is getting that opportunity at a club that wants champions league football. Look at Foden, miles a head of Davies, yet is still only a bit part at city. Jones at Liverpool again, class above Davies and has played a bit recently because of injuries. Next season at 21 he will probably still be a squad player, when all their players are back.

I dont expect him to play many games, except where injury forces our hand. We have better more experienced players in the squad right now. However I do expect him to keep trying to improve and I’m sure he’ll get used as a bit part player coming on for the last 15 minutes of games here and there. Angelotti seems to be using in more in a defensive capacity at right back or defensive central midfield.I think people continue to get opportunities in those positions.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I would imagine that young versions of Xavi and Iniesta could have played keep away all day in today's game.

Absent that level of precision, you do have to match the physicality of the other teams in the Prem.

Yeah the very best in the world are still the ball playing midfielders like Xavi Iniesta Modric Pirlo etc. but if you don’t have a player at that level then it’s very difficult for the flair players. Even then Iniesta and Modric had pace to go past players. Davies can slip his man and then his man can get back goalside easily. Osman was similar, a very very good technical player (far better than Davies in my book) but if Kevin Davies and Mark Noble are getting to the ball before him then it doesn’t count for anything.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

If he can deputise for Allan and learn the defensive midfielder role that England see him as can't be band thing.

Got caught out penalty against Arsenal, five games in I would have been on his case, match sharpness and lack of is a thing.

Also, Arsenal have for a long time been high up on the gamesmanship scale (cheats)... So I'll let that penalty go this time. Generally had a ok game.

 

[TimHowardsBeardJuice]

He’s played over a 100 games, do you really think Ancelotti is going to give him 40 games over the next 12months just to see if he can reach that level.

No youngster is getting that opportunity at a club that wants champions league football. Look at Foden, miles a head of Davies, yet is still only a bit part at city. Jones at Liverpool again, class above Davies and has played a bit recently because of injuries. Next season at 21 he will probably still be a squad player, when all their players are back.

Those sides have world-class midfielders.

We have Davies, Sigurdsson, Delph, Gomes, Allan, Doucoure, Gbamin.

First off, that's not enough bodies. If you want to count Gordon, Iwobi, and Bernard in there because they sometimes play wing, that's fine. Gordon has shown not just potential but fully realized ability and should be getting a shot, most here would agree. Iwobi seems to be finding a home as a wing but that's not a midfielder per se, he's not going to play ahead of Davies in a role where Carlo would use Davies. Bernard has actually done halfway decently when playing centrally but he's in Carlo's doghouse and has his limits, which are being amply discussed in his thread. So with those caveats, let's put those aside and concentrate on the actual midfielders.

Let's start with the least marketable asset, and count up to the most marketable.

Delph: where do you want to start. chronically injured, does nothing particularly well when he plays, poisonous attitude, fell short of expectations both as club leader and re: on the pitch production. Damaged goods.
Sigurdsson: overpriced, underachiever, athletically lacking, too old to attract bigger club.
Gomes: evidently not recovered from horrific injury, defensive liability but attacking output limited, stupid fouls.

None of those three make the squad at City or Liverpool.

These might:

Gbamin: promising, lost a season and a half due to injury, no track record in PL, may not make jump
Doucoure: versatile box-to-box, high work rate, good defending and some attacking output too, good character guy
Allan: stud in the engine room, athletic, ballhawk, great spirit

Any side would love Allan IMO but we got him because of Carlo. Doucoure would play at RS or City but in rotation.

Given what we have, and that we take the cups seriously whereas bigger sides run out their squad players and academy kids, Davies fills a need. He's not spectacular and would not sniff those sides, but for us, right now, he's useful. Carlo has reached him to the point where he mans his position competently. He at least keeps shape and does decently at defending and tidy passing. He puts in a shift, never downs tools. Not spectacular but not disastrous. With good players around him that's been enough in key spots and it's an improvement on most of that group.

In so performing he's shown growth, likely because Carlo has simplified his brief. As noted elsewhere other young players have improved under Carlo, some astonishingly so. On current trajectory it's reasonable to expect Davies to continue to mature. He'll never start for Real but he isn't total crap either.

I grew up a Boston Red Sox fan in American baseball. We had a pitcher, John Burkett. He was old. He was at the end of the bench. His stats were poor compared to the superstar pitchers. It was always watching from behind the sofa through your fingers when he pitched. Yet he usually muddled through and did well enough to keep us in the game if the other players did their job. You never wanted him to pitch, but when he did he usually fared ok.

So we nicknamed him "the Napkin"* on a Red Sox board I frequent. The Napkin, as in a replacement for toilet paper. Toilet paper is of course preferable when you have to take a crap. You would never choose to wipe with a napkin over toilet paper. You never want to be in a position where you have to use a napkin. You avoid using the napkin except in an emergency. It's not pleasant to use the napkin. But you know what, in the end it does the job.

Davies is our Napkin at the moment.

*Napkin in American English is "the square piece of paper or cloth you use to wipe your face and hands when you're eating." Is it a serviette for youze? I believe "napkin" has a different connotation there. Read as "serviette" if necessary to make sense of it.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

Those sides have world-class midfielders.

We have Davies, Sigurdsson, Delph, Gomes, Allan, Doucoure, Gbamin.

First off, that's not enough bodies. If you want to count Gordon, Iwobi, and Bernard in there because they sometimes play wing, that's fine. Gordon has shown not just potential but fully realized ability and should be getting a shot, most here would agree. Iwobi seems to be finding a home as a wing but that's not a midfielder per se, he's not going to play ahead of Davies in a role where Carlo would use Davies. Bernard has actually done halfway decently when playing centrally but he's in Carlo's doghouse and has his limits, which are being amply discussed in his thread. So with those caveats, let's put those aside and concentrate on the actual midfielders.

Let's start with the least marketable asset, and count up to the most marketable.

Delph: where do you want to start. chronically injured, does nothing particularly well when he plays, poisonous attitude, fell short of expectations both as club leader and re: on the pitch production. Damaged goods.
Sigurdsson: overpriced, underachiever, athletically lacking, too old to attract bigger club.
Gomes: evidently not recovered from horrific injury, defensive liability but attacking output limited, stupid fouls.

None of those three make the squad at City or Liverpool.

These might:

Gbamin: promising, lost a season and a half due to injury, no track record in PL, may not make jump
Doucoure: versatile box-to-box, high work rate, good defending and some attacking output too, good character guy
Allan: stud in the engine room, athletic, ballhawk, great spirit

Any side would love Allan IMO but we got him because of Carlo. Doucoure would play at RS or City but in rotation.

Given what we have, and that we take the cups seriously whereas bigger sides run out their squad players and academy kids, Davies fills a need. He's not spectacular and would not sniff those sides, but for us, right now, he's useful. Carlo has reached him to the point where he mans his position competently. He at least keeps shape and does decently at defending and tidy passing. He puts in a shift, never downs tools. Not spectacular but not disastrous. With good players around him that's been enough in key spots and it's an improvement on most of that group.

In so performing he's shown growth, likely because Carlo has simplified his brief. As noted elsewhere other young players have improved under Carlo, some astonishingly so. On current trajectory it's reasonable to expect Davies to continue to mature. He'll never start for Real but he isn't total crap either.

I grew up a Boston Red Sox fan in American baseball. We had a pitcher, John Burkett. He was old. He was at the end of the bench. His stats were poor compared to the superstar pitchers. It was always watching from behind the sofa through your fingers when he pitched. Yet he usually muddled through and did well enough to keep us in the game if the other players did their job. You never wanted him to pitch, but when he did he usually fared ok.

So we nicknamed him "the Napkin"* on a Red Sox board I frequent. The Napkin, as in a replacement for toilet paper. Toilet paper is of course preferable when you have to take a crap. You would never choose to wipe with a napkin over toilet paper. You never want to be in a position where you have to use a napkin. You avoid using the napkin except in an emergency. It's not pleasant to use the napkin. But you know what, in the end it does the job.

Davies is our Napkin at the moment.

*Napkin in American English is "the square piece of paper or cloth you use to wipe your face and hands when you're eating." Is it a serviette for youze? I believe "napkin" has a different connotation there. Read as "serviette" if necessary to make sense of it.

It was suggested that Davies needs more game time and he was improving, I disagree. Unless we have an horrendous injury crisis, he’s not getting much game time. If Gomes was fit he wouldn’t have started v Arsenal

Ok so he started the other day and has come off the bench a few times, but he’s not good enough to be back up to Allan & Doucoure.

You said 7 midfielders isn’t enough, not sure how you work that out. If Ancelotti is playing 433 or 4231. 6 central midfielders is ample moving forward. For me only 2 are good enough. Allan, Doucoure. With Gbamin the 3rd, if he gets over his injuries and gets back to a very good level.


So that’s 3 more required over the next few windows. I really can’t see Delph, Gomes, Davies and even siggurdsson lasting much longer.

So we need imo. A top class box to box midfielder. Who comes straight into the team. Or at least puts huge pressure on Allan/Doucoure. Many a young midfielder 19/20 with potential. As we don’t seem to have much in the 23’s apart from a 17yr old. And then maybe an experienced player on a free for a couple of years or a Loan. Still a lot of work to do in the midfield area over the next 18months.

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

Those sides have world-class midfielders.

We have Davies, Sigurdsson, Delph, Gomes, Allan, Doucoure, Gbamin.

First off, that's not enough bodies. If you want to count Gordon, Iwobi, and Bernard in there because they sometimes play wing, that's fine. Gordon has shown not just potential but fully realized ability and should be getting a shot, most here would agree. Iwobi seems to be finding a home as a wing but that's not a midfielder per se, he's not going to play ahead of Davies in a role where Carlo would use Davies. Bernard has actually done halfway decently when playing centrally but he's in Carlo's doghouse and has his limits, which are being amply discussed in his thread. So with those caveats, let's put those aside and concentrate on the actual midfielders.

Let's start with the least marketable asset, and count up to the most marketable.

Delph: where do you want to start. chronically injured, does nothing particularly well when he plays, poisonous attitude, fell short of expectations both as club leader and re: on the pitch production. Damaged goods.
Sigurdsson: overpriced, underachiever, athletically lacking, too old to attract bigger club.
Gomes: evidently not recovered from horrific injury, defensive liability but attacking output limited, stupid fouls.

None of those three make the squad at City or Liverpool.

These might:

Gbamin: promising, lost a season and a half due to injury, no track record in PL, may not make jump
Doucoure: versatile box-to-box, high work rate, good defending and some attacking output too, good character guy
Allan: stud in the engine room, athletic, ballhawk, great spirit

Any side would love Allan IMO but we got him because of Carlo. Doucoure would play at RS or City but in rotation.

Given what we have, and that we take the cups seriously whereas bigger sides run out their squad players and academy kids, Davies fills a need. He's not spectacular and would not sniff those sides, but for us, right now, he's useful. Carlo has reached him to the point where he mans his position competently. He at least keeps shape and does decently at defending and tidy passing. He puts in a shift, never downs tools. Not spectacular but not disastrous. With good players around him that's been enough in key spots and it's an improvement on most of that group.

In so performing he's shown growth, likely because Carlo has simplified his brief. As noted elsewhere other young players have improved under Carlo, some astonishingly so. On current trajectory it's reasonable to expect Davies to continue to mature. He'll never start for Real but he isn't total crap either.

I grew up a Boston Red Sox fan in American baseball. We had a pitcher, John Burkett. He was old. He was at the end of the bench. His stats were poor compared to the superstar pitchers. It was always watching from behind the sofa through your fingers when he pitched. Yet he usually muddled through and did well enough to keep us in the game if the other players did their job. You never wanted him to pitch, but when he did he usually fared ok.

So we nicknamed him "the Napkin"* on a Red Sox board I frequent. The Napkin, as in a replacement for toilet paper. Toilet paper is of course preferable when you have to take a crap. You would never choose to wipe with a napkin over toilet paper. You never want to be in a position where you have to use a napkin. You avoid using the napkin except in an emergency. It's not pleasant to use the napkin. But you know what, in the end it does the job.

Davies is our Napkin at the moment.

*Napkin in American English is "the square piece of paper or cloth you use to wipe your face and hands when you're eating." Is it a serviette for youze? I believe "napkin" has a different connotation there. Read as "serviette" if necessary to make sense of it.

This is one of the most sensible posts I've read on here, even considering "the Napkin" Bosox analogy

Davies is what he is. And given his age and wages, attitude, etc, he's the least of our problems. As others have posted, I'd be asking more questions about why the Range Rover or BMW doesn't work