flibbyflob
Player Valuation: £40m
Brentford then, they seem to like taking our youngsters on loan. That or send them to Burton to give a small club in a big league a hand.
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RickyMartin
Player Valuation: £1m
Really like this lad, think he's dynamic, talented and hasn't let the occasion get to him in the slightest.
Don't want to put too much pressure on him so soon but he's got it in his locker to be an elite Premier League player if he continues his trajectory.
Don't want to put too much pressure on him so soon but he's got it in his locker to be an elite Premier League player if he continues his trajectory.
Geoff Nulty
Player Valuation: £750k
I think the man who picked the player yesterday was as important as the player himself. There's clearly real trust and affection between Unsworth and his u21s. The pictures of Unsworth hugging Dowell are really telling. I'm not sure Martinez, had he picked them, would have sent them out with the same instructions and in the same frame of mind.
A very impressive full debut, and when I first saw the team I thought maybe we would go 433 with Davies in the middle of Barry and McCarthy , for although people talk about his central midfield role, and the Echo have labelled him " the answer to Everton's central midfield position for future years" he's made his name as a defensive midfielder.
The comparisons with Ledson are apt, in that Davies followed him into captaining England u17 in a DFM position, one of the 2 in a traditional 4231 system, and it was really when Ledson went out on loan that Davies cemented his position as a DFM alongside Joe Williams for the u21s. You can't really compare the two directly as while they have similar attributes they also have differences in thier style. Very roughly , Ledson is more like Barry , possibly reading the game better defensively and hitting the 40 yd pass, Davies is more akin to McCarthy box to box bundle of energy and skill. Yesterday I could see one day Ledson hitting the pass that Barry hit to set up the penalty , and Davies appearing on the end of a Dowell run to score a goal in the way McCarthy did. Ledsons captaincy of England seemed to give confidence to a competent player, whereas Davies confidence probably gave him the captaincy if that makes sense.
Great credit to Unsy yesterday ensuring that Davies knew what he was doing at all times. Particularly when McCarthy came off , Lennon comes on and goes straight to Davies and probably says something like " Unsy says you're to drop further back and play alongside Barry just like you do alongside Joe Williams ". Some managers would have hooked Davies off and not McCarthy, it shows the confidence Unsy has in his youngsters , and credit to Davies that although some say he went quieter after this he still played his role well although a different one.
And the mantra that EVERY youngster needs to go out on loan has been disproved by Dowell and Davies, while at the same time yesterday showed how much a loan has benefited Kenny. Loans are great if used wisely , I'm not sure he needs a loan next season, though he obviously will need a decent amount of game time somehow. We must avoid sending him somewhere like a League 2 club where some gnarly midfielder will do the " so you're the guy who's made a PL debut eh, have some of this". Find the right Championship cLub if we can.
The comparisons with Ledson are apt, in that Davies followed him into captaining England u17 in a DFM position, one of the 2 in a traditional 4231 system, and it was really when Ledson went out on loan that Davies cemented his position as a DFM alongside Joe Williams for the u21s. You can't really compare the two directly as while they have similar attributes they also have differences in thier style. Very roughly , Ledson is more like Barry , possibly reading the game better defensively and hitting the 40 yd pass, Davies is more akin to McCarthy box to box bundle of energy and skill. Yesterday I could see one day Ledson hitting the pass that Barry hit to set up the penalty , and Davies appearing on the end of a Dowell run to score a goal in the way McCarthy did. Ledsons captaincy of England seemed to give confidence to a competent player, whereas Davies confidence probably gave him the captaincy if that makes sense.
Great credit to Unsy yesterday ensuring that Davies knew what he was doing at all times. Particularly when McCarthy came off , Lennon comes on and goes straight to Davies and probably says something like " Unsy says you're to drop further back and play alongside Barry just like you do alongside Joe Williams ". Some managers would have hooked Davies off and not McCarthy, it shows the confidence Unsy has in his youngsters , and credit to Davies that although some say he went quieter after this he still played his role well although a different one.
And the mantra that EVERY youngster needs to go out on loan has been disproved by Dowell and Davies, while at the same time yesterday showed how much a loan has benefited Kenny. Loans are great if used wisely , I'm not sure he needs a loan next season, though he obviously will need a decent amount of game time somehow. We must avoid sending him somewhere like a League 2 club where some gnarly midfielder will do the " so you're the guy who's made a PL debut eh, have some of this". Find the right Championship cLub if we can.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
He may opinion if far from esteemed matey! If you'd have asked me 3 years ago, or even 18 months ago then I'd have said Ledson. However as of today definitely Davies as he's shown he can excel in the first team.
In all honesty a lot will depend on the next managerial appointment and the way we want to take the team forward.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
A very good summary. Ledson reminds me a bit of a cross between a young Gerrard and Rodwell. He is a bit nastier than Rodwell and has a presence he didn't have but not as classy on the ball or athletic as Jack. I am not sure his reading of the game is as good as Barry's or his short game is that strong. However he covers the ground well, gets his foot in and can hit ranging passes/shots from distance. I think Ledson could be a box to box midfielder as he still covers ground well. He has stalled a little though.
Davies is far cuter. I think he is more rounded and a better dribbler. He has come on leaps and bounds over the last 18 months. And yes you are absolutely right not every player needs a loan out, some do some don't. Davies just looks like he belongs in the first team, he seems laid back and plays the same way for the first team as he did for the under 16's. Dowell has a unique set of skills that would benefit the first team with a run. Given Gibson is going I'd like to see Ledson staying for the first team too.
Walsh probably needs another year on loan to grow. I think he will be like Osman and will be ready a little later. Kenny has really come on with a loan, as has Pennington before him and Connolly could do with going out on loan. I'd like to see Kenny start pre-season with us but maybe a loan to the championship or a short loan to Oxford if Pennington & Browning are fit.
Yeah you're right, his progress has been quite startling. At the beginning of the season he was flitting back and to between our u18/ u21. I watched the games he played for England U18 in the World Cup in Chile, (October ?)and he was one of their best players, I think they rested him for one game and didn't do so well without him, can't quite remember. Anyway when he played he looked like the glue holding them together but wasn't the obvious stand out player , just a very good 17 year old with lots of developing to do. We've had lots of discussions in the Youth Team thread and at the start of the season I don't think anybody would have predicted he'd be the first 17/18 year old to achieve a full 90 minutes at PL level. A super way to end the season for him , but also a reminder that he's still " a very good 17 year old with lots of developing to do"
Exeter Gently
Player Valuation: £2.5m
Better than having a 16 on the back and sides and a 0 on top.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
No you are absolutely right. I'm not going to be wise after the event and as I have just indicated in the youth teams thread I didn't pinpoint Tom as 1 of the 4 lads who really stood out to me. I always noticed Dowell, Ledson, Kenny & Walsh (I always enjoyed watching Walsh play as he is such a clever footballer).
Tom was always considered the year bellows equivalent to Ledson. That was how he was measured, that he might be as good as Ledson. Ledson was compared to Rodwell or other PL players. When he first started as an under 17 he was a very slight lad and didn't get into the team. Williams and Walsh tended to play a lot in there and occasionally Ledson. He used to fill in at right back.
He did eventually nail down a place in midfield and him and Walsh ran the game against Liverpool when we beat them 5-0. I began to notice him around this time last year as he went from being quite a slight lad to one that really filled out and grew up. I remember Unsworth using him in a reserves derby when we were losing 3-0 and brought him on at Half time. He went on and kicked their captain up in the air and changed the mood of the game. He ended up scoring the equaliser that night and cemented his position ever since. That was around 9 months ago and his development has continued on from that point.
There is a really interesting question around the loan situation. I am not trying to muck up trouble and this is all hypothetical. However I do wonder what Walsh/Ledson may think? They have gone out on loan, seemingly ahead of Davies but in Martinez's progression requiring loan football as the next stage. By all accounts Walsh has excelled while Ledson has performed well. Meanwhile back at Everton a younger lad Davies has taken their spot having not been out on loan. Like with a lot of things with Roberto is probably highlighted the differences between theory and practice that he didn't want to see. This obviously alongside the fact that Davies has made terrific progress.
It will be interesting to see what happens next season. I do think it will need careful management. Another loan will do Walsh no harm but Ledson I'd like to see included in the first team.
It was only a 'dead rubber' against a relegated side, but Davies had a cracking game and was a real shout for man of the match. Hopefully he'll have a good close-season and really push on into the first team squad for next season. It was a real return to form for a lot of the side, but his performance was a right bonus.
No he just took up a deeper position so was involved as much. Plus he would of tired in the last 15 mins or so.
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