Well well well

[EFCNIK]

Look at a guy called Pat Condell on youtube. Namely the 'I'm offended' video in particular but there's quite a few. Tell me he's wrong. TELL ME HE'S WRONG DAMNIT!

 

[BlueLlama]

[video=youtube;ZsZRxkQ0EWM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsZRxkQ0EWM[/video]

 

[Brennan]

[video=youtube;zZtc2ma2GEQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtc2ma2GEQ[/video]

 

[Dell Boy]

Doesn't make me a racist to have real fears that a dramatic rise in the Islamic population of Great Britain would be disastrous.

I think this is one of the key issues. Nik and others are linking a rise in the Islamic population to a direct rise in the extent and coverage of sharia law - and the resultant drive down of traditional UK freedoms.

I don't believe there is any proven link there at all and to date there is no suggestion that there is any serious rise in sharia law in this country - let alone anything that directly affects the average "Englishman".

I believe it is all scaremongering of the worst kind. I have two young daughters. If I seriously thought there was a genuine "threat" from a rising Muslim population in this country then I'd do something about it.

 

[Dell Boy]

I thought you were better than this. NIK has made some fair points, but you try to tie him to EDL or BNP and tbf that is not what he has been saying. If you can't argue the point with him by virtue of balanced argument please don't try to vilify him by association to some far right or left grouping. He is making some fair points, just do the same.......

Nik's central argument is about a potent threat from a rising radicalisation of Islam in this country. That is also the EDL's headline rallying call. I am not attempting to liken apples and oranges here. They are factually indistinguishable in their core concerns. If you or Nik are ashamed/embarrassed by some of the EDL crowd or their actions then who's problem is that?

I believe it is dangerous to tar a whole religion with this line of argument. If it was seriously taken up by the wider population in this country it would do irreparable damage to community relations.

 

[Dell Boy]

Yep always get a few ****s attaching themselves to things like this. Another reason I couldn't ever really support them. In the early days it literally was just a group for racists to hide behind. But as I say, there are black people and various other groups of people in The EDL so a video with a few idiots in doesn't really say much to me. There are racists in all walks of life, doesn't mean everyone is one. And anyway, The EDL or The BNP or whatever group you wish to tarnish me with are irrelvent. Youre merely hiding from the subject and stopping it getting spoken about. Again, if people listened and stopping throwing the r word around without knowing what it means, then The EDL wouldn't need to exist.

I think these black people and Sikhs you reference as members of the EDL are the very definition of a token inclusion.

 

[Blue 1]

I think these black people and Sikhs you reference as members of the EDL are the very definition of a token inclusion.

The "Sikh Division" is about three people. One of the original leadership was a sikh. IIRC he quit after he was threatened with excommunication by leaders in his local Sikh community for his involvement.

 

[EFCNIK]

[video=youtube;zZtc2ma2GEQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtc2ma2GEQ[/video]

And the smackdown was layed. Tbh he might go a bit far here. Anyway, search his video 'im offended'. THAT is the one I wish people to break down, if they can be arsed, and tell me he's wrong.

 

[Dell Boy]

And the smackdown was layed. Tbh he might go a bit far here. Anyway, search his video 'im offended'. THAT is the one I wish people to break down, if they can be arsed, and tell me he's wrong.

Where is there any evidence of sharia law or an increasing muslim population directly impacting any traditional white/western country in any material way?

Where is there any evidence that traditional white/western people would just roll over and accept a material encroachment in their modern democratic rights?

Unless you can answer these mate you are just scaremongering.

 

[hullefc]

Trying to use the fact that the EDL have Sikh's and black people in its ranks to indicate that it cannot be racist is ridiculous.There were hundreds of thousands of Jews that voted for the Nazi's. By that logic the Nazi's didn't have a racial element to it.

 

[EFCNIK]

Where is there any evidence of sharia law or an increasing muslim population directly impacting any traditional white/western country in any material way?

Where is there any evidence that traditional white/western people would just roll over and accept an material encroachment in their modern democratic rights?

Unless you can answer these mate you are just scaremongering.

The grooming gang epidemic can be justified by 'sharia law', and there are certain groups of muslims who go around enforcing sharia in 'muslim areas' by taking drink off people etc etc but I agree its not particullaly a wide problem. But it will be.

 

[EFCNIK]

Trying to use the fact that the EDL have Sikh's and black people in its ranks to indicate that it cannot be racist is ridiculous.There were hundreds of thousands of Jews that voted for the Nazi's. By that logic the Nazi's didn't have a racial element to it.

Do your research. Watch some videos. Don't just listen to the media. The EDL has some very bad apples amongst there ranks, I am unfortunate enough to know a few, and there will be lots of racist who want to attach themselves to it. But what is worrying is when you take what they say (not what they do) which is 'we are against militant islam' people immediately concluded racism. Unfortunatly The EDL is the only group who is willing to speak out against it, and they are immediately shot down and not listened. That is only going to get people more frustrated and is the precise reason they are growing. They are a symptom of people throwing the R word around and not addressing the obvious issues.

 

[steken1]

I think this is one of the key issues. Nik and others are linking a rise in the Islamic population to a direct rise in the extent and coverage of sharia law - and the resultant drive down of traditional UK freedoms.

I don't believe there is any proven link there at all and to date there is no suggestion that there is any serious rise in sharia law in this country - let alone anything that directly affects the average "Englishman".

I believe it is all scaremongering of the worst kind. I have two young daughters. If I seriously thought there was a genuine "threat" from a rising Muslim population in this country then I'd do something about it.

As Davek had said Sharia is used to sort low level familial and business disputes. 20 years ago it was unheard of. If the population explosion predicted doubles the number of Muslims in the country it's not ridiculous to say it could grow further.

Sharia Law is not my main concern however.

 

[toffee-fellaini]

EFCNIK definitely reads the Daily Express.

 

[EFCNIK]

Why is it when people question the unreformed role of islam and the problems its causing do people throw around the standard response of The EDL... They have nothing to do with anything.