Who’s the GOAT?

[Jamo Martinez]

I didn't say I wasn't impressed by him, he is obviously one of the most talented players ever. I said I was watching a random youtube vid of his 50 best goals and several were freekicks no better than Baines has scored for us!

I just think it's lame if you have to include "decent" free kicks in a top 50 goals compilation is all.

That's just some numpty's list. You could compile 50 great goals by Messi with his right foot.

 

[WA Toffee]

I'm just glad I get to see Messi and Ronaldo (on TV) every week, and saw plenty of Maradona's games too.
As to which is the greatest? I honestly don't care, I just enjoy each of them for what they are.

But if I absolutely had to choose - it would be Paolo Maldini

 

[WA Toffee]

He won the player of the tournament at the World Cup in 2014. He had a big impact in the group stages, scoring in all 3 games, including an excellent goal in the last minute to beat Iran (can only beat who you are up against and all that). He had a more disappointing knockout stage but he's held to such high standards that some people ended up disappointed in him by the end of it.

I can't ever remember Cristiano Ronaldo doing a massive amount in any World Cup, certainly hasn't ever been voted player of the tournament. People will mention the Euros win in 2016, where he did win the player of the tournament in that, however, Portugal must be contenders for the worst winners of any international tournament with that win, drawing all their group games (Ronaldo only scored 1 in that), and relying on extra time or penalties to get through the next 2 rounds (he didn't score in either game). Scored in the semi and went off in the final after 25 mins. Was hardly a massive influence throughout that tournament, when you consider how much of an impact he has in the CL.

No doubting he's a phenomenal player though.

Ronaldo is one of only 4 players ever to score at 4 world cups, so yeah, I would say he has done a massive amount.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

Ronaldo is one of only 4 players ever to score at 4 world cups, so yeah, I would say he has done a massive amount.

Impressive but I think he meant that he hasn't stood out at any individual WC.

 

[Jimishorts]

Ferenc Puskás must have been up there to have ’the most beautiful goal of the year’ award named after you.

I thought it use to be quite rare to score from halfway but it looks like it happens every week now.

 

[Guru888]

R9 could’ve been it if his knees held up, Messi and Maradona a close second for me

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Impressive but I think he meant that he hasn't stood out at any individual WC.

The World Cup is massively over-rated as a platform anyway. No one regards Klose as one of the best ever for scoring more WC goals than anyone.

At the time of the last World Cup, France were ranked 9th in the FIFA rankings, and to win the tournament they beat two teams that were ranked higher than them (and they had much the harder route to the final than Croatia, who were themselves ranked just 15th in the world).

Compare that to Real Madrid's Champions League win that season, when they defeated Spurs (19th), Dortmund (10th), PSG (7th), Juventus (5th), Bayern (3rd) and Liverpool (22nd). 4 teams from the top 10, and Spurs and Liverpool were no mugs.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

The World Cup is massively over-rated as a platform anyway. No one regards Klose as one of the best ever for scoring more WC goals than anyone.

At the time of the last World Cup, France were ranked 9th in the FIFA rankings, and to win the tournament they beat two teams that were ranked higher than them (and they had much the harder route to the final than Croatia, who were themselves ranked just 15th in the world).

Compare that to Real Madrid's Champions League win that season, when they defeated Spurs (19th), Dortmund (10th), PSG (7th), Juventus (5th), Bayern (3rd) and Liverpool (22nd). 4 teams from the top 10, and Spurs and Liverpool were no mugs.

Totally agree. Since the CL revamp in the early 90s, club football is defo the pinnacle for the sport. When I was young, nobody retired voluntarily from international football. Happens every year now.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Totally agree. Since the CL revamp in the early 90s, club football is defo the pinnacle for the sport. When I was young, nobody retired voluntarily from international football. Happens every year now.

Such is the domination of the biggest clubs in each league now that they usually have the best players from their country plus some of the best from overseas. Add in that they play together every week and the standard is far higher.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Totally agree. Since the CL revamp in the early 90s, club football is defo the pinnacle for the sport. When I was young, nobody retired voluntarily from international football. Happens every year now.

It is an interesting question regarding when it flipped from international to club football being the standard. I'd say the latest possible date is when the 3 Dutchman went to Milan and turned that team dominant in the late 80s. That 90 Germany team was good but Milan would have ran them over as basically that was Italy with the best striker in the world and Ruud Gullit tossed in for good measure. The World Cup is still the pinnacle because it is the World Cup but for evaluating individuals it is a pretty poor measure. We've got Besic to point to ourselves to show that.

 

[Rook]

The World Cup is massively over-rated as a platform anyway. No one regards Klose as one of the best ever for scoring more WC goals than anyone.

At the time of the last World Cup, France were ranked 9th in the FIFA rankings, and to win the tournament they beat two teams that were ranked higher than them (and they had much the harder route to the final than Croatia, who were themselves ranked just 15th in the world).

Compare that to Real Madrid's Champions League win that season, when they defeated Spurs (19th), Dortmund (10th), PSG (7th), Juventus (5th), Bayern (3rd) and Liverpool (22nd). 4 teams from the top 10, and Spurs and Liverpool were no mugs.

IDK at Barca Messi could have a bad night and it wouldn't matter, he's surrounded by Xavi, Inestia, Alves, Suarez etc. International footie, you can't paper over weaknesses by buying a new player. The WC forces you to take more of a leadership role, be more of a marked man, and make inferior players better.

Granted Messi was kind of screwed by not even getting in the QT match against Germany at 19 and the Copa diminished its own importance by going every 2 years but just once I'd have liked to see him have a performance like Bale did in the 2016 Euros.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

IDK at Barca Messi could have a bad night and it wouldn't matter, he's surrounded by Xavi, Inestia, Alves, Suarez etc. International footie, you can't paper over weaknesses by buying a new player. The WC forces you to take more of a leadership role, be more of a marked man, and make inferior players better.

Granted Messi was kind of screwed by not even getting in the QT match against Germany at 19 and the Copa diminished its own importance by going every 2 years but just once I'd have liked to see him have a performance like Bale did in the 2016 Euros.

That's kind of the point though, over 700 or however many games, Messi very rarely has a bad night. He's consistently ridiculous. I think there was a stat not long ago saying that even now, when he's clearly not quite the player he was, he's either scored or assisted in a goal every game for like a year or something nuts, and this is in a Barca side that is well off the Xavi and Iniesta era.

Yet people choose to discount those 700 odd games and judge his career on a dozen games at a World Cup. I mentioned the 2018 CL final previously, and Real are a good example, as they have the best players Spain has to offer, plus Modric (world player of the year that year), Ronaldo, Marcelo, Varana, Bale, Kroos, Benzema et al. I think most observers would say their team is better than the Spanish team, just as Bayern's team today is better than the German team, Man City's better than the England team, and so on.

So not only does winning the Champions League require you to play a higher calibre of team throughout the tournament than you often get (over more games than it takes to win the WC as well), but the annual nature of the CL means players are tested far more frequently. It's the pinnacle of the sport now, not the World Cup.

 

[wainy]

Had to go with Diego. No protection from refs, single handedly dragged Napoli to success, won a World Cup for not the greatest Argentine team. CR7 runs him close though.

 

[davek]

"Messi".

Lol.

 

[Kurt.]

Had to go with Diego. No protection from refs, single handedly dragged Napoli to success, won a World Cup for not the greatest Argentine team. CR7 runs him close though.

It’s a myth that he dragged Napoli single handedly to success.... that team had some very good players in it.... quite a few internationals I believe... I think @Bruce Wayne has alluded to this previously too and his knowledge is far better than mine in that team