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Who could replace Martinez ?

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WA Toffee said:
Yes, in much the same way that RM got much more out of pretty much the same squad last season. Do you think any current premier managers could have got more out of the squad last season?
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My own view is that squad basically managed itself to 5th they were that well drilled by Moyes. Moyes actually said that's what he used to say to the players - they were that professional they could coach themselves. Now it's taken less than 12 months for Martinez to corrode Moyes legacy into dust and put the team on a par with Mike Walkers outfit before Royle took over. And for the record I am no Moyes lover.
 
Kev The Rat said:
My own view is that squad basically managed itself to 5th they were that well drilled by Moyes. Moyes actually said that's what he used to say to the players - they were that professional they could coach themselves. Now it's taken less than 12 months for Martinez to corrode Moyes legacy into dust and put the team on a par with Mike Walkers outfit before Royle took over. And for the record I am no Moyes lover.
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I don't agree with that as Martinez dramatically changed the playing style of the team.

I think that theory holds some water with reference to the defence though, as Martinez has never built a solid back line and the combination of Moyes solid back 5 together with Martinez much more attacking style combined to provide a great balance.

12 months on, we look defensively frail. Partially a result of age, partially as a result of a chronically poor pre season and the last of the Moyes defensive drilling wearing off.

I said months ago he needed to bring in a specialist defensive coach and that view hasn't altered.
 
Kev The Rat said:
My own view is that squad basically managed itself to 5th they were that well drilled by Moyes. Moyes actually said that's what he used to say to the players - they were that professional they could coach themselves. Now it's taken less than 12 months for Martinez to corrode Moyes legacy into dust and put the team on a par with Mike Walkers outfit before Royle took over. And for the record I am no Moyes lover.
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Don't think the players coached themselves, rather they were still drilled, then add in the flair of going forward with RM possession based game and it just clicked perfectly. The team spirit and the never say die attitude, it's why we were one of the top performing teams for gaining late points.

12 months on, full preseason done and the idea of defending has been shelved. It's quite bizzare really, and quite scary.

Last year we'd go one down and you'd know that we would still be in the game and probably still hopeful of a win; this year who just think 'how many' and 'if we get a point I'd be made up'.
 
Kev The Rat said:
My own view is that squad basically managed itself to 5th they were that well drilled by Moyes. Moyes actually said that's what he used to say to the players - they were that professional they could coach themselves. Now it's taken less than 12 months for Martinez to corrode Moyes legacy into dust and put the team on a par with Mike Walkers outfit before Royle took over. And for the record I am no Moyes lover.
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Really?

Coleman finally started to look a solid defender whist also becoming the most threatening attacking right back in the league.

Stones came from nowhere and with every passing game improved and grew in stature to the point his was on the cusp of a place in England's World Cup squad after only a handful of appearances.

Barry came in and finally we'd found someone to hold the midfield tother that we'd all thought Fellaini was bought for 5 years previous.

McCarthy arrived and immediately showed how lacking we've been for years in a dynamic all action midfield player who could grab a game by the scruff of the neck and dominate the opposition.

Deulfoeu turned up and provided us with the pace and trickery of a winger that we've probably not seen since Kanchelskis.

Barkley went from an kid in the reserves who wasn't trusted to a vital cog in how Martinez wanted to play the game.

Lukaku arrived and gave us the goal threat we've not had since Yakubu did his achilles 5 years ago.

Now none of them were Moyes players and they all arrived for less than than what we sold Fellaini for and all of them were vital players in us finishing with a record points total Moyes was never close to achieving. I liked Moyes, I still think he did a good job for us and we shouldn't hold any grudges against him, but there's no way he'd have done that last year and there's no way a team can manage itself.

Credit where credits due Martinez did a great job last year in his first season, he took over a good team and made it better in the way he managed it. He also had us playing the sort of football people were gushing over and we recieved plaudits from everyone, he won over a dubious fan base and brought a freshness and a positivity to the squad and club.

In short your talking bollocks.
 
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Foot Long Hot Dog said:
I don't agree with that as Martinez dramatically changed the playing style of the team.

I think that theory holds some water with reference to the defence though, as Martinez has never built a solid back line and the combination of Moyes solid back 5 together with Martinez much more attacking style combined to provide a great balance.

12 months on, we look defensively frail. Partially a result of age, partially as a result of a chronically poor pre season and the last of the Moyes defensive drilling wearing off.

I said months ago he needed to bring in a specialist defensive coach and that view hasn't altered.
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The other myth that needs addressing is the idea that we never played an attractive attacking style under Moyes. That may have been the case in the early/middle years but Moyes last season for me produced just as attractive football as what was being served up last season. Obviously minus a couple of components in gerard and lukaku. Basically I didn't see a huge amount of difference between Moyes last season and Martinez first which leads me to think Martinez produced a holding operation at best.

Anyway the problems are now and it pains me to say id swap martinez for pulis or pardew in a heartbeat at present.
 
I remember once when the team practically coached themselves. Well, Watson and Southall had to sort out the training side of things. Mike Walker was manager and we nearly got relegated. Just wanted to point out to @Kev The Rat that players can't coach themselves to 72 points and 21 league wins as players generally don't know there arse from there elbow hence why a manager takes care of that side of things.
 
Kev The Rat said:
The other myth that needs addressing is the idea that we never played an attractive attacking style under Moyes. That may have been the case in the early/middle years but Moyes last season for me produced just as attractive football as what was being served up last season. Obviously minus a couple of components in gerard and lukaku. Basically I didn't see a huge amount of difference between Moyes last season and Martinez first which leads me to think Martinez produced a holding operation at best.

Anyway the problems are now and it pains me to say id swap martinez for pulis or pardew in a heartbeat at present.
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Weren't you one of the fiercest critics of Moyes on here?

18 months on and you'd take Pulis..........just lol
 
Kev The Rat said:
My own view is that squad basically managed itself to 5th they were that well drilled by Moyes. Moyes actually said that's what he used to say to the players - they were that professional they could coach themselves. Now it's taken less than 12 months for Martinez to corrode Moyes legacy into dust and put the team on a par with Mike Walkers outfit before Royle took over. And for the record I am no Moyes lover.
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Wow. For the record, and I will probably get crucified on here for saying it, I think Moyes is a better coach than Martinez will ever be, but there is no way you can be be serious or sober when you posted that
 

Foot Long Hot Dog said:
Weren't you one of the fiercest critics of Moyes on here?

18 months on and you'd take Pulis..........just lol
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Don't think I was massively against him while he was here - my criticism of him if any was his personal conduct toward the fans and the club.

Anyway I'd take Pulis over Martinez - that doesn't mean id actually want Pulis if that makes sense. Although I do think unlike the majority here that we are now in a full on relegation battle.
 
WA Toffee said:
Quick check, just out of curiosity - remember all those people who were saying they would rather miss out on the Europa cup because it may impact our league form? How many of those are the same people now saying they want Martinez sacked because we are in a poor run of form?
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Conversely, how many of those still supporting Martinez on the back of his 'success' in the Europa League were at the start of the season saying we should ignore that competition to concentrate on PL performance?
 
Kev The Rat said:
Don't think I was massively against him while he was here - my criticism of him if any was his personal conduct toward the fans and the club.

Anyway I'd take Pulis over Martinez - that doesn't mean id actually want Pulis if that makes sense. Although I do think unlike the majority here that we are now in a full on relegation battle.
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Agree with this. I can't believe how many of us seem to be in denial about it. This team has no more fight in it than Walkers. Praying Roberto can sort himself and us out and fast..
 

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