WHO SHOULD BE OUR NEW MANAGER???

[BirkenheadBlue]

Moshiri has shown that he bows to fan pressure, media pressure, and emotional sentimentality. Fans wanted Koeman out, he was out, Kenwright wanted Unsworth to have a go, Moshiri indulged him for a bit before bowing to the fans, the media wanted a British manager to be given a top job (something they never advocate for one of the real top jobs) and he panicked and duly appointed Allardyce. He has no decisive strategy at all and will make decisions on a whim. If Evertonians start running with this Arteta stuff, the media will push it because a bit like Allardyce or Dyche or Howe it will suit their agenda of shafting a non top 6 side. If the noise is great enough Moshiri will listen to it.

This must not happen. Arteta is even less qualified than Unsworth and commands less respect at Everton. At least Unsworth was a trophy winner, leader as a player and won youth trophies. Arteta has done none of these things but because he’s put the cones out for Pep people think he should manage Everton?! Absolutely crazy. Phil Neville did the same for Moyes and that bloke at Valencia now at Wolves, may just as well give it to him if you follow this ridiculous logic.

I hate to say it but a lot of this stuff is a form of reverse xenophobia. Any ex Everton player in recent times who is British would be immediately derided if linked to the Everton job: Stubbs, Weir, Neville, Ferguson, Unsworth would rightly be judged as not having good enough CVs to manage us. Stubbs has even won a cup as a first team manager but rightly would not be deemed good enough.

Arteta does a few months of coaching under Pep though and people are calling for him to be considered as manager. It would be the same with Cahill, or Kanchelskis, or if Matterazi suddenly wanted a crack.

I'll preface this by saying I don't think Arteta should get the job either. But - it's more than "a few months"... He's done over a year and a half at this point under the best manager in the world. He was also seen as one of the most promising graduates to *ever* come through the UEFA courses. To say he's in the same boat as Cahill, Kanchelskis, Materazzi simply isn't true.

 

[toffeejack]

Wenger may be leaving Arsenal in the summer, would you take him even at his age ?

i'd actually have to think if i'd prefer allardyce.

 

[gaino92]

Pienaar and Baines

 

[Groucho]

Has Pienaar got his badges?

If he does, hell why not?

 

[davek]

I've seen you knocking down candidate after candidate Dave... can we have a (realistic) name or two that you WOULD be happy with?

That's untrue. I've dismissed Arteta.

My view is that Silva was a good choice three months back and I see no reason to change my mind on him. I think we'd struggle to get a manager like Fonseca here who's stock will be high. If we can get him, then get him instead of Silva.

 

[davek]

Moshiri has shown that he bows to fan pressure, media pressure, and emotional sentimentality. Fans wanted Koeman out, he was out, Kenwright wanted Unsworth to have a go, Moshiri indulged him for a bit before bowing to the fans, the media wanted a British manager to be given a top job (something they never advocate for one of the real top jobs) and he panicked and duly appointed Allardyce. He has no decisive strategy at all and will make decisions on a whim. If Evertonians start running with this Arteta stuff, the media will push it because a bit like Allardyce or Dyche or Howe it will suit their agenda of shafting a non top 6 side. If the noise is great enough Moshiri will listen to it.

This must not happen. Arteta is even less qualified than Unsworth and commands less respect at Everton. At least Unsworth was a trophy winner, leader as a player and won youth trophies. Arteta has done none of these things but because he’s put the cones out for Pep people think he should manage Everton?! Absolutely crazy. Phil Neville did the same for Moyes and that bloke at Valencia now at Wolves, may just as well give it to him if you follow this ridiculous logic.

I hate to say it but a lot of this stuff is a form of reverse xenophobia. Any ex Everton player in recent times who is British would be immediately derided if linked to the Everton job: Stubbs, Weir, Neville, Ferguson, Unsworth would rightly be judged as not having good enough CVs to manage us. Stubbs has even won a cup as a first team manager but rightly would not be deemed good enough.

Arteta does a few months of coaching under Pep though and people are calling for him to be considered as manager. It would be the same with Cahill, or Kanchelskis, or if Matterazi suddenly wanted a crack.

Completely agree mate. He's flavour of the month. And why? Because he sits a couple of places down from Guardiola on the City bench? Did that make Clement a good choice for his English clubs because he sat near Ancelotti? Did it bollox.

He's done nothing. He was hardly a top class player and he has no experience of team management at ANY level as far as I can see.

Imagine hiring a character like that to come in here and see to this train crash. Never in a million years should he be considered. Added to that he pissed off after begging for a move and it didn't take him long to come back here and insult the club.

No, no, no.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

That's untrue. I've dismissed Arteta.

My view is that Silva was a good choice three months back and I see no reason to change my mind on him. I think we'd struggle to get a manager like Fonseca here who's stock will be high. If we can get him, then get him instead of Silva.

Ta, was just wondering who would actually please you as an appointment.

 

[Bob Elstone]

Completely agree mate. He's flavour of the month. And why? Because he sits a couple of places down from Guardiola on the City bench? Did that make Clement a good choice for his English clubs because he sat near Ancelotti? Did it bollox.

He's done nothing. He was hardly a top class player and he has no experience of team management at ANY level as far as I can see.

Imagine hiring hiring a character like that to come in here and see to this train crash. Never in a million years should he be considered. Added to that he pissed off after begging for a move and it didn't take him long to come back here and insult the club.

No, no, no.

This 100%

 

[Neiler]

That's untrue. I've dismissed Arteta.

My view is that Silva was a good choice three months back and I see no reason to change my mind on him. I think we'd struggle to get a manager like Fonseca here who's stock will be high. If we can get him, then get him instead of Silva.

I wouldnt change Sam if im being honest, im not a fan of chopping and changing managers and it stinks of bad management of a club.

If it were to come to pass i would also rate Silva though.

 

[davek]

I wouldnt change Sam if im being honest, im ot a fan of chopping and changing managers and it stinks of bad management of a club.

If it were to come to pass i would also rate Silva though.

Moshiri is a loose cannon. THAT we know for sure by now.

I can see the Everton managerial door being a revolving one unless he flukes getting an emerging superstar of a manager who gives us three or four seasons.

Allardyce has to go, no question of that. But there has to be certain limits on who the new man should be. The kneejerk is to go with the complete opposite:

If Allardyce is old - get someone young
If Allardyce is experienced with loads of clubs behind him - get a rookie manager
If Allardyce played log ball - get a player who exclusively plays possession based football

We need younger, but not young; experienced, but not set in their ways; attacking flair, but not at the expense of defensive solidity.

 

[Neiler]

Moshiri is a loose cannon. THAT we know for sure by now.

I can see the Everton managerial door being a revolving one unless he flukes getting an emerging superstar of a manager who gives us three or four seasons.

Allardyce has to go, no question of that. But there has to be certain limits on who the new man should be. The kneejerk is to go with the complete opposite:

If Allardyce is old - get someone young
If Allardyce is experienced with loads of clubs behind him - get a rookie manager
If Allardyce played log ball - get a player who exclusively plays possession based football

We need younger, but not young; experienced, but not set in their ways; attacking flair, but not at the expense of defensive solidity.

I have to agree, i like the Mosh, but appears far to trusting to me, i think the decision making of the board is flawed to be honest and you know im not one to bash unnecessarily on that score. Clearly decisions are being made that are not effective, not just on managers but throughout the club. A change in the board is the biggest priority to me.

If that is the priority i wouldnt mind stability on the pitch with that upheaval, which is why i wouldn't mind another season under Allardyce, he can circle a square, balance a squad, be effective in the market and would have us challenging for a Europa. Id take that if the tiers of management above his head were ripped up and reset, thats the fundamental problem for me. Let him have next season, short terms incremental stability and progress for long term gain and sweep up the mess created last summer with recruitment, its a big job to balance our squad.

As for the future, we need to understand our relative position. Im not a fan of bringing in a manager for three years and then giving them a bullet, there is a natural time for a parting of the ways, as there was with Moyes, Martinez etc that doesnt change the progress they made at points with us. The problem with inconsistency in the manger is it undermines the squad and their belief in him, you are not going to try your best for a short term fix. It also leaks money from the club, we have paid close to 50 mill in manager recruitment and staff in binning Martinez, Koeman ad their staff and recruiting Allardyce, we need to bind that cut financially.

We exist in a vacuum between mid table and the top 4. We cant go toe to toe, with the top four with fees, wages of attraction of profile at the moment we have to grow into that. A balance needs to be struck with buying potential but also big name quality as far as we can to achieve it, put it together and hope for that season were it proves enough for the CL, to raise our profile and climb the rungs to consistency at that level.

That for me is a long term plan and the management that succeeds needs at least five years to achieve it, you need someone like Moyes but not necessarily Moyes to achieve it. Who can spot untapped, under the radar talent/potential at international and domestic level and improve it. Looking around i dont see a lot managers who can do that, i rate Silva, I also think Eddie Howe has something about him as a coach in improving players and a philosophy that i like and a style of play, he is a also a blue. I even think Moyes is doing and will do a good job at West Ham ultimately. None of the high profile international names do it for me and they all carry a risk.

It would be Silva or Eddie Howe for me if i had to pick tomorrow, both carry warning risks, but also potential upsides, the market is pretty uninspiring or financially short term motivated with other big names which shouldn't be the motivation in my opinion.

 

[davek]

I have to agree, i like the Mosh, but appears far to trusting to me, i think the decision making of the board is flawed to be honest and you know im not one to bash unnecessarily on that score. Clearly decisions are being made that are not effective, not just on managers but throughout the club. A change in the board is the biggest priority to me.

If that is the priority i wouldnt mind stability on the pitch with that upheaval, which is why i wouldn't mind another season under Allardyce, he can circle a square, balance a squad, be effective in the market and would have us challenging for a Europa. Id take that if the tiers of management above his head were ripped up and reset, thats the fundamental problem for me. Let him have next season, short terms incremental stability and progress for long term gain and sweep up the mess created last summer with recruitment, its a big job to balance our squad.

As for the future, we need to understand our relative position. Im not a fan of bringing in a manager for three years and then giving them a bullet, there is a natural time for a parting of the ways, as there was with Moyes, Martinez etc that doesnt change the progress they made at points with us. The problem with inconsistency in the manger is it undermines the squad and their belief in him, you are not going to try your best for a short term fix. It also leaks money from the club, we have paid close to 50 mill in manager recruitment and staff in binning Martinez, Koeman ad their staff and recruiting Allardyce, we need to bind that cut financially.

We exist in a vacuum between mid table and the top 4. We cant go toe to toe, with the top four with fees, wages of attraction of profile at the moment we have to grow into that. A balance needs to be struck with buying potential but also big name quality as far as we can to achieve it, put it together and hope for that season were it proves enough for the CL, to raise our profile and climb the rungs to consistency at that level.

That for me is a long term plan and the management that succeeds needs at least five years to achieve it, you need someone like Moyes but not necessarily Moyes to achieve it. Who can spot untapped, under the radar talent/potential at international and domestic level and improve it. Looking around i dont see a lot managers who can do that, i rate Silva, I also think Eddie Howe has something about him as a coach in improving players and a philosophy that i like and a style of play, he is a also a blue. I even think Moyes is doing and will do a good job at West Ham ultimately. None of the high profile international names do it for me and they all carry a risk.

It would be Silva or Eddie Howe for me if i had to pick tomorrow, both carry warning risks, but also potential upsides, the market is pretty uninspiring or financially short term motivated with other big names which shouldn't be the motivation in my opinion.

Moshiri's style and governance - and promises he's made upfront - has effectively torpedoed the type of patient development you wish for. There's no way any new manager can assuage critics and be kept on if they dont produce something over and above the 7th/8th place average finishes we've come to see as a poor return. If that's all they can do (or worse) in their early career here then they'd face massive pressure to stand down. That's the club we've become now. As said, revolving door policy now in operation at GP...and the only way of avoiding the chop is if a new man comes in and gets right in amongst the top 6 places straight away and/or win a trophy.

Moshiri has basically destabilised the club single handedly.

 

[Nymzee]

Moshiri's style and governance - and promises he's made upfront - has effectively torpedoed the type of patient development you wish for. There's no way any new manager can assuage critics and be kept on if they dont produce something over and above the 7th/8th place average finishes we've come to see as a poor return. If that's all they can do (or worse) in their early career here then they'd face massive pressure to stand down. That's the club we've become now. As said, revolving door policy now in operation at GP...and the only way of avoiding the chop is if a new man comes in and gets right in amongst the top 6 places straight away and/or win a trophy.

Moshiri has basically destabilised the club single handedly.

Agree with you for once. Dangerous territory for even the best managers to come here now. We’ve got a large amount of unrealistic expectations to try and eradicate. People presumed the money meant instant success.

 

[Neiler]

Moshiri's style and governance - and promises he's made upfront - has effectively torpedoed the type of patient development you wish for. There's no way any new manager can assuage critics and be kept on if they dont produce something over and above the 7th/8th place average finishes we've come to see as a poor return. If that's all they can do (or worse) in their early career here then they'd face massive pressure to stand down. That's the club we've become now. As said, revolving door policy now in operation at GP...and the only way of avoiding the chop is if a new man comes in and gets right in amongst the top 6 places straight away and/or win a trophy.

Moshiri has basically destabilised the club single handedly.

Im not so sure, season one? I think the majority of the club fan base and hierarchy would be sated with 5-7th in year one, within that context we may be competitive with the CL places i think it depends on progress and performances if i am honest.

We are three points of a potential Europa league place now yet the general mood is one of depression and despair, why?

Basically because of progress and performances. We have been in similar situations with a sense of momentum and progress before that have been marked with hope and excitement, yet the feeling around the club and fan presently is depression. The disconnect between the club, management and fans is alarming, but in real terms we could finish this season with what we achieved last season very easily i.e. a Europa spot.

In analysis for me the subtle factors are progress, performance and momentum are missing.

Instinctively we know the above just isn't happening, do we look a team three places of Europe? Not really and that is the crux. Do we want performances or do we want end results. If we get the Europa this season will it be a good season as other have been? No, but why?

Season two for any manager here is a different story, the bottom line given investment has to be CL football, if that correlating investment is made. There will be a limit to how money Moshiri will throw good money after bad. I do think progression, make up of the team and potential come into that to mitigate any change in management. In short if we develop a team like say Spurs with youthful internationals with headroom for development, improvement and growth is season two and finish fifth then i dont think a manager will be sacked. If we do it after dropping 200 mill with a team of 29 years old then there is a case in my opinion. The context is important

We are an interesting case study at the moment, three points of a European spot that we were delighted with last season, yet the general mood is utter dejection.

For me it harks back to the culture of the club and the school of science philosophy, the progress, performance aspect of our culture and tradition in comparison to relative success given the context of a European place on offer via through abject performances. As fans what sates us performance, progression or nuts and bolts success by whatever means? Clearly as is the mood, it seems to be progression and performance rather then the end result or success. That in itself is interesting.

The game Vs Burnley could be a European decider yet their is zero hype or excitement around it.

Its interesting to analyse that and ask questions about why?

 

[davek]

Im not so sure, season one? I think the majority of the club fan base and hierarchy would be sated with 5-7th in year one, within that context we may be competitive with the CL places i think it depends on progress and performances if i am honest.

We are three points of a potential Europa league place now yet the general mood is one of depression and despair, why?

Basically because of progress and performances. We have been in similar situations with a sense of momentum and progress before that have been marked with hope and excitement, yet the feeling around the club and fan presently is depression. The disconnect between the club, management and fans is alarming, but in real terms we could finish this season with what we achieved last season very easily i.e. a Europa spot.

In analysis for me the subtle factors are progress, performance and momentum are missing.

Instinctively we know the above just isn't happening, do we look a team three places of Europe? Not really and that is the crux. Do we want performances or do we want end results. If we get the Europa this season will it be a good season as other have been? No, but why?

Season two for any manager here is a different story, the bottom line given investment has to be CL football, if that correlating investment is made. There will be a limit to how money Moshiri will throw good money after bad. I do think progression, make up of the team and potential come into that to mitigate any change in management. In short if we develop a team like say Spurs with youthful internationals with headroom for development, improvement and growth is season two and finish fifth then i dont think a manager will be sacked. If we do it after dropping 200 mill with a team of 29 years old then there is a case in my opinion. The context is important

We are an interesting case study at the moment, three points of a European spot that we were delighted with last season, yet the general mood is utter dejection.

For me it harks back to the culture of the club and the school of science philosophy, the progress, performance aspect of our culture and tradition in comparison to relative success given the context of a European place on offer via through abject performances. As fans what sates us performance, progression or nuts and bolts success by whatever means? Clearly as is the mood, it seems to be progression and performance rather then the end result or success. That in itself is interesting.

The game Vs Burnley could be a European decider yet their is zero hype or excitement around it.

Its interesting to analyse that and ask questions about why?

I accept that argument, but it really is still about results and league spots...more especially when so much cash is being spent. I think 7th/best of the rest was acceptable under the old model of sell to buy and small/zero net spends, but not now. Performance is also crucial, but if the performances and results are too far apart then a price will be paid by the man in the dugout. Yeah, probably 7th/8th would be acceptabe in the first season if the style of play was progressive and we looked like we had a plan of getting better. But a second season of building but just getting 7th/8th wont be tolerated.