Who's your money on in the takeover 'battle'?

[MikeH72]

Is there a difference between risking your money and wasting your money?

There’s a difference between risking your own money and risking your fat Uzbek mate’s money.

 

[CielosGrises]

LOL

I mean, obviously you aren't a fan of the Moshiri and neither am I after the last couple of years - but he's lost tons of money on Everton which I assume he won't get back.

The fact that he spent it unwisely is a whole other thing.

I'll assume BK worked hard - but the club helped make him richer too.

 

[allen]

Why are we now assuming that every Evertonian shares his egotistical self-absorbed mindset again?

Because they bring a form of attachment others don't.

I'm not saying all Evertonians would act in the same way - though I'm not overly surprised to see you pushing an argument to an extreme.

I'm saying I've been burnt by it over decades and reflexively I don't want a repeat.

 

[TyphooToffee]

I don’t think they’ll exist to be heard of mate.

I meant litigation

 

[Evertonthat]

I wonder what has happened such that Bell and Downing and MSP are making separate bids. It seems that MSP would want a partner ready to takeover in the medium-term and Bell and Downing will not have the resources for that. A combined bid would have seemed the ideal scenario but maybe too many cooks spoil the broth.

I wouldn't have any issues with Bell and Downing either, just that for the circumstances we are in, MSP seem a better fit to provide a path to stability and growth.

The Manoukian bid just seems bizarre. I would be very uneasy if that was the one which prevailed. We need certainty in the form of known quantities, even if they can't or won't provide the silver bullet we would like.

Combined MSP with Bell and Downing would be great for reducing the debt. Would be interesting to know why they've gone separate with their bids.

 

[CielosGrises]

Is there a difference between risking your money and wasting your money?

One has the benefit of hindsight ?

He must've thought he knew what he was doing, even though he didn't.

 

[MikeH72]

Because they bring a form of attachment others don't.

I'm not saying all Evertonians would act in the same way - though I'm not overly surprised to see you pushing an argument to an extreme.

I'm saying I've been burnt by it over decades and reflexively I don't want a repeat.

I’m instinctively against being owned by an Evertonian.

Kenwright held us down over decades because he didn’t want to let go. It took him the best part of 20 years to find a buyer who would let him stay on in a meaningful capacity - apparently his only criterion.

I don’t want decades more of train set clutching.

That does absolutely imply that you think Evertonian ownership means decades of train set clutching.

 

[MikeH72]

I mean, obviously you aren't a fan of the Moshiri and neither am I after the last couple of years - but he's lost tons of money on Everton which I assume he won't get back.

The fact that he spent it unwisely is a whole other thing.

I'll assume BK worked hard - but the club helped make him richer too.

He has not put one single penny of his money into this football club.

 

[Yarrgh]

Somebody mentioned that Manoukian is part owner of the Dorchester Hotel with the Sultan of Brunei.

EDIT
Just found this on Wiki - In June 1998 the brother of the Sultan of Brunei, Prince Jefri Bolkiah, was sued by his former business partners in a case that was settled out of court.[37] During the case the Manoukians claimed that Prince Jefri kept 40 prostitutes at a time at the Dorchester.

Jefri's going to need a big executive box on match days.

 

[CielosGrises]

He has not put one single penny of his money into this football club.

Ok, I'll call it Team Uzzy then - but, along with the fans and TV, somebody has - and it wasn't Bill.

 

[allen]

That does absolutely imply that you think Evertonian ownership means decades of train set clutching.

I fear it might mean that, yes.

I'm expressing what my instinct is telling me. I'm not claiming to know the intentions of these guys or any others.

It isn't an especially nuanced view I'm expressing.

I'm not sure what you're not understanding.

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

Combined MSP with Bell and Downing would be great for reducing the debt. Would be interesting to know why they've gone separate with their bids.

Because MSP probably have no interest in owning us and have already priced themselves out of it

 

[MikeH72]

Ok, I'll call it Team Uzzy then - but, along with the fans and TV, somebody has - and it wasn't Bill.

Don’t think anyone’s suggesting Bill did mate. But Moshiri hasn’t invested or lost anything in this club, as soon as Usmanov was sanctioned he started taking out loans against the club to pay the bills. He is a complete fraud.

 

[Timbucktoo]

One has the benefit of hindsight ?

He must've thought he knew what he was doing, even though he didn't.

He deffo thought he could run a top football club which was why he sold his Arsenal shares to take us over. The Arsenal lot made a great call not allowing him have a say in how they were being run.

 

[Zatara]

I'm open minded on all the bids, because to be honest very little detail is known.

If these lads want to come in and put 400 mill into the club - without a plan for the debt then that is a worry, if the plan is to recapitalise the club and pay some of the debt then im open minded. If they come in and throw in 400 mill and have no plan for the debt then thats a worry. The specifics aren't known, so im open minded. But i just wouldn't be seduced by the figure. If something is to good to be true it usually is.

The debt and finishing the stadium are the two most important things, the debt is costing us about 1.15 million a week to manage in interest - it badly needs paying or it badly needs restructuring. Sugar daddying 400 mill into the club in equity, is appealing but it isn't a priority unless its used on finishing the stadium and paying debt. As i said im open minded, maybe they will pay down the debt without restructuring but that hasn't been said yet and because of that why not. If they restructure or pay the debt and also put 400 mill into the club, im in. But its not clear, so ill be keeping my power dry.

The only plan ive seen, in terms of a restructure, is Bell and Downings, sure it will be at about 10% but it will be over a longer period of time similar to what Spurs did with their ground - it will eventually go the way of our Bear Sterns/Prudential deal, when inflation kicks in.

Im looking at three things really, the plan for the debt, the remaining financing of the stadium and the competency of who is coming in. The Bell/Downing plan - we take some medicine - but is concrete in terms of debt repayment and that in itself bring some king of badly needed clarity, certainty and stability for the club. I think both bring something in terms of competency in infrastructure/facility/property management and with a Labour government coming in there is a pathway for public funding surrounding the Northern docks as they will invest in public spending. They also have competency in terms finance, running and developing successful company's and exploiting commercial markets. This we know.

MSP strike me as short term investors and while they have some of the above - we need a long term strategy - i think their priority is to protect and get a return on their investment - they aren't here for the long term.

Textor - i never thought was realistic - i think he's trying to drum up interest in his Palace stake.

The lad at Roma - i dont see as realistic either as i think Uefa will shortly crack down on Multi clubs, so its not clever.

The Manoukian bid, doesn't add up to me - the all equity thing as above, needs clarity, id be concerned if they were pumping 400 mill into the club if it wasn't to repay debt, maybe it is - but we dont know, so i wouldn't be seduced by it, until we had clarity. Very little is known, about the people involved and finding concrete information is difficult. They have no track record in terms of being involved in something like this - so difficult to know what skills they bring. Much is unknown.

Im open minded on all of the above, what we know at the moment is guarded, ive a leaning toward Bell and Downing - based purely on the realism of their bid on what we know. Its clear their is a PR game going on, whether it be the Michael Dell thing or All Equity Bids. But much more detail is needed.

There seems to be a magic figure of 350 mill - 400 mill at play across both bids. This is curious to me - its obviously a magic number for something. Maybe its settling MSP, the stadium and capital. But it does seem to the magic number.

Anyway more will break I'm sure and we will all prob change our minds again - as the week goes on, ultimately we want the best deal for the club, id like it quickly though.

Im a bit lost here, as far as im aware Bell & Downing have not revealed any plan?

All we have seen is Dell's name pushed, Esk saying its not a simple loan and thats about it. The merchant bank has been mentioned as loaning to other clubs and maybe refinancing.

But i havent heard of any 'plan'

To me its all guesswork. Id say no to them as they seem to have pushed out a misleading narrative.

MSP bid $3.75billiion for Spurs. Either attention focuses now on us with vast capital available, or they restructure and fix us then sell to someone with even more money.

Roma i dont see anything but 45% and has been selling players at Roma.

Manoukian -- i think hes arranging the deal but no other info

Thats where we are imo