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Match Thread Wolves v Everton, Sat 11/8/18 17:30

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Mugwump said:
I'm not ignoring anything, but if they arent given every time thats down to inconsistent refereeing. Still doesn't mean Jagielka's red wasnt a sending off. You cant keep kidding yourself that it shouldnt have been a red when the letter of the law says it is. There is no question from the replays he caught Jota's ankle so if the ref thought he was excessive in his tackle thats a red.

The big issue i have with it is the excessive force part of the rule is down to the interpretation of the referee. Like i said before, you cant stop your momentum when you make a challenge, so in theory you can make a good tackle, but your momentum takes you into your opposing player and if the ref thinks its done with excessive force, its a red. I just dont know how they consistently get decisions like that correct when there its down so much to interpretation.

I never said either i'd be happy with the free kick being moved forward ( or backward if it helped for that matter ), dont know why you seem to think i did. I just made the point moving it forward probably made very little difference to Neves in the scheme of things. If you want to get really technical, the distance from the edge of the D on the outdise of the 18 yard box to the penalty spot is 10 yards, and the Everton wall was just barely on the penalty spot, if at all. So considering Neves had the ball placed closer in than the edge of the D, wouldnt that mean the Everton wall wasnt back the correct distance as well?
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You've basically just explained why it isn't down to "the letter of the law" at all there and then undermined your own original point that "if the ref gives it, it's a red" by noting that they can't be consistent with it i.e. they will get it wrong a lot of the time. This is my point: he got Jagielka's wrong as it wasn't excessive force, it was a fair attempt to win the ball which was successful and wasn't excessively forceful or dangerous. You've pretty much spelt out why you agree with me on the excessive force aspect of the decision here in your previous posts, so that clears that up.

On the free-kick, I can safely assume you'd have felt pretty aggrieved if we'd scored the winner from a free-kick we'd moved 5 yards closer to goal than it should have been taken (and you'd have been right to). That's all you really needed to say. The rest of the paragraph didn't really add anything.
 

Billy Wright said:
Wolves fan here. Very interesting to read comments about today's game on this forum, as I was at the match. I thought Everton were really poor, even when they had 11 men. It was a bit like playing a mid table championship team who got a bit lucky. I thought that our passing and movement were another class compared with you guys. Were you folks really watching the same match?
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never ever been so comfortable in an away match up to the red card ....your passing ? I lost count as to how many times you booted it into touch last night ...how many chances did Everton create with 10 men this without 5 players who will instantly improve us ..your manager didn’t have a clue how to go about playing against 10 men
 
Mugwump said:
I'm not ignoring anything, but if they arent given every time thats down to inconsistent refereeing. Still doesn't mean Jagielka's red wasnt a sending off. You cant keep kidding yourself that it shouldnt have been a red when the letter of the law says it is. There is no question from the replays he caught Jota's ankle so if the ref thought he was excessive in his tackle thats a red.

The big issue i have with it is the excessive force part of the rule is down to the interpretation of the referee. Like i said before, you cant stop your momentum when you make a challenge, so in theory you can make a good tackle, but your momentum takes you into your opposing player and if the ref thinks its done with excessive force, its a red. I just dont know how they consistently get decisions like that correct when there its down so much to interpretation.

I never said either i'd be happy with the free kick being moved forward ( or backward if it helped for that matter ), dont know why you seem to think i did. I just made the point moving it forward probably made very little difference to Neves in the scheme of things. If you want to get really technical, the distance from the edge of the D on the outdise of the 18 yard box to the penalty spot is 10 yards, and the Everton wall was just barely on the penalty spot, if at all. So considering Neves had the ball placed closer in than the edge of the D, wouldnt that mean the Everton wall wasnt back the correct distance as well?
Click to expand...
Only Pawson apparently said he’d sent him off your denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity, when your striker didn’t even have the ball. It should have been a yellow for catching him on the follow through after over stretching to win the ball. It was a donkey decision by a bad homer of a referee.
 

paulbefc said:
You've basically just explained why it isn't down to "the letter of the law" at all there and then undermined your own original point that "if the ref gives it, it's a red" by noting that they can't be consistent with it i.e. they will get it wrong a lot of the time. This is my point: he got Jagielka's wrong as it wasn't excessive force, it was a fair attempt to win the ball which was successful and wasn't excessively forceful or dangerous. You've pretty much spelt out why you agree with me on the excessive force aspect of the decision here in your previous posts, so that clears that up.

On the free-kick, I can safely assume you'd have felt pretty aggrieved if we'd scored the winner from a free-kick we'd moved 5 yards closer to goal than it should have been taken (and you'd have been right to). That's all you really needed to say. The rest of the paragraph didn't really add anything.
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Going to be a very interesting read on here if there is a similar tackle on one of our players and the ref doesn't give a red because "it wasn't excessive force" wonder if we'll be shaking our heads in agreement with the ref............
 
ToffeeLee1878 said:
never ever been so comfortable in an away match up to the red card ....your passing ? I lost count as to how many times you booted it into touch last night ...how many chances did Everton create with 10 men this without 5 players who will instantly improve us ..your manager didn’t have a clue how to go about playing against 10 men
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He hasn't a plan B and he clearly has said he well never change hence why these still had 3 cb still on the pitch against 10 men,i think he's poorer version of Martinez,you can get away with it with the likes if Ipswich,bristol rovers and co but the premier league is a different ball game.
 
paulbefc said:
You've basically just explained why it isn't down to "the letter of the law" at all there and then undermined your own original point that "if the ref gives it, it's a red" by noting that they can't be consistent with it i.e. they will get it wrong a lot of the time. This is my point: he got Jagielka's wrong as it wasn't excessive force, it was a fair attempt to win the ball which was successful and wasn't excessively forceful or dangerous. You've pretty much spelt out why you agree with me on the excessive force aspect of the decision here in your previous posts, so that clears that up.

On the free-kick, I can safely assume you'd have felt pretty aggrieved if we'd scored the winner from a free-kick we'd moved 5 yards closer to goal than it should have been taken (and you'd have been right to). That's all you really needed to say. The rest of the paragraph didn't really add anything.
Click to expand...

I didnt explain why it isnt down to the letter of the law at all. He threw himself into a tackle, he just about took the ball, then he connected with the players ankle. They are all indisputable facts. The technicalities are all there for a red card to be given so i haven't undermined anything. Not sure why you aren't getting its the system i'm pointing out is the problem. My personal opinion, or your personal opinion is irrelevant. You have stated in your opinion his tackle wasnt excessive, i'd agree as well. Unfortunately for you, your name or my name isnt Craig Pawson, and he thought it was excessive. Like it or not, if the ref thinks the tackle has excessive force, its a red. Thats the rules the game is refereed by and it doesnt actually mean the ref has made an error either, he just has a different opinion. So unless there is a system to standardise some of these decisions ( which there isnt ) that clears that up.

As for the rest of my paragraph not adding anything, it adds nothing for you because you dont want to hear the Everton wall wasnt 10 yards from the ball. So the ref has pretty much stuffed up with the placement of the ball and the placement of the wall. We both got dudded, we just had a bloke who it didnt matter to i guess.
 

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