Young EFC Players Out on Loan 2019-20

[TheBigIguana]

Let's be very generous and say he has had 6 years to prove himself. He was 16 back then, so hardly likely to be a starter, and he was coming through as we struggled at the back end of the Martinez era.

So let's look at the so called missed opportunities he has had since then.

For Everton, he has played some part of 4 games under 4 of our 7 different mangers.

40 games for Forrest under 2 different managers, scoring 10 goals.

16 games for Sheff Utd, scoring 2 as they achieved automatic promotion.

10 games for Derby, which is admittedly, the only spell that has been a failure.

And 11 games for Wigan, where he has scored 5.

That is 81 games and 17 goals, a goal every 4.7 games, for 5 teams under 9 different managers.

In the same time, we've had Sigurdsson play 110 games, scoring 22 goals, a goal every 5 games and Bernard play 65 games, scoring 5, a goal every 13 games.

Also, I'm pretty sure only 1 of Dowells goals was a penalty, the hat-trick goal for Forrest against Hull, which has helped bulk out Gylfis stats, even with his appalling record from the spot.

Like I say, if we were talking about signing a 22 year old with his potential and his numbers, everyone would be on board and would happily watch us spend millions to make it happen. He deserves a proper opportunity, and as far as I'm concerned, his loans have proved he is ready to try to make the step up.

I genuinely believe he cannot be any worse than what we have served up over the last 6 years since his debut, and I hope he gets the chance to prove it. We've had so many missed opportunities in the last few years, I really don't want us to miss another.

Our fan base likes to justify our young players never making it all the way to their top potential as 100% on that player and never on the club. I guess it is just easier that way. But yes we've missed chances and Dowell is at least worth a go with our limited creative output right now.

 

[Osamabindiesel]

I like Dowell quite a bit, but unless he changed his demeanor drastically, he won’t make it at a club trying to stay in the top half of the table. We just can’t get away with a homeless man’s baby Berbatov atm.

Having said that, I haven’t kept up with him and maybe he upped his work rate.

 

[hktoffee]

Our fan base likes to justify our young players never making it all the way to their top potential as 100% on that player and never on the club. I guess it is just easier that way. But yes we've missed chances and Dowell is at least worth a go with our limited creative output right now.

If Davies performs in the lower league will people give him a chance? Pennington and Connolly...most youngsters won’t make it in PL some fans just won’t accept that.

 

[TheBigIguana]

If Davies performs in the lower league will people give him a chance? Pennington and Connolly...most youngsters won’t make it in PL some fans just won’t accept that.

The opportunities afforded to Davies and to Dowell aren't really comparable

 

[messymascot]

Dowell has found his level in my opinion. He has not made enough of an impact at Championship level to justify being in a Premier League squad where top 7 is absolute minimum target. If we are happy meandering about in mid table give him another go otherwise cash in what little value he has left.

 

[BornBlue76]

Poor quality video of Dowell's goals. Third was great

all good goals...third shows his talent and should be goal of the season! Belter!

 

[TheBigIguana]

Dowell has found his level in my opinion. He has not made enough of an impact at Championship level to justify being in a Premier League squad where top 7 is absolute minimum target. If we are happy meandering about in mid table give him another go otherwise cash in what little value he has left.

He's also still 22 and you'd have been saying the same about Calvert-Lewin and Holgate last summer.

 

[jazzy]

Let's be very generous and say he has had 6 years to prove himself. He was 16 back then, so hardly likely to be a starter, and he was coming through as we struggled at the back end of the Martinez era.

So let's look at the so called missed opportunities he has had since then.

For Everton, he has played some part of 4 games under 4 of our 7 different mangers.

40 games for Forrest under 2 different managers, scoring 10 goals.

16 games for Sheff Utd, scoring 2 as they achieved automatic promotion.

10 games for Derby, which is admittedly, the only spell that has been a failure.

And 11 games for Wigan, where he has scored 5.

That is 81 games and 17 goals, a goal every 4.7 games, for 5 teams under 9 different managers.

In the same time, we've had Sigurdsson play 110 games, scoring 22 goals, a goal every 5 games and Bernard play 65 games, scoring 5, a goal every 13 games.

Also, I'm pretty sure only 1 of Dowells goals was a penalty, the hat-trick goal for Forrest against Hull, which has helped bulk out Gylfis stats, even with his appalling record from the spot.

Like I say, if we were talking about signing a 22 year old with his potential and his numbers, everyone would be on board and would happily watch us spend millions to make it happen. He deserves a proper opportunity, and as far as I'm concerned, his loans have proved he is ready to try to make the step up.

I genuinely believe he cannot be any worse than what we have served up over the last 6 years since his debut, and I hope he gets the chance to prove it. We've had so many missed opportunities in the last few years, I really don't want us to miss another.

Dowell clearly has some talent but it is telling that Sheff U did not request another loan or even permanent deal after they were promoted.

For me , whenever I have seen him play , he looks half hearted and doesn't work hard enough . The complete opposite of what we need.

If you compare him with Gordon , both have good technique but only one puts a shift in.

Positionally I see him as a no.10 a postion we have no need for.

 

[Eggs]

Dowell clearly has some talent but it is telling that Sheff U did not request another loan or even permanent deal after they were promoted.

For me , whenever I have seen him play , he looks half hearted and doesn't work hard enough . The complete opposite of what we need.

If you compare him with Gordon , both have good technique but only one puts a shift in.

Positionally I see him as a no.10 a postion we have no need for.

...I think Dowell works hard but he’s languid in his movement so folk think he’s not putting in a shift when in reality, he is.

He has the quality to effectively impact games but he’s inconsistent and it’s reasonable to doubt his application after a number of disappointing loan spells. i suspect he needs to feel comfortable at a club but its difficult to see Wigan affording him in their current predicament.

 

[BornBlue76]

Without going back to page 59 and quoting @catcherintherye i agree 100%. Last season when Zouma left I was happy to make Gibson our number 4 and had 100% confidence in Holgate in a time it seemed most (not all) wanted to cash in.
With Gibson coming back we should see that as the solution along with Branthwaite.

These two players are in the cusp and any new established signings knock them back, especially Gibson.

have more often than not continued with bang average performances from big name players at the expense of giving youth a proper run. Look to counter that it’s remarkable how much time DCL has been afforded. I’m still reserving my opinion though I’m afraid on him. But then I’ll counter that with Kean who get 5 mins at the end of a game.

I would love to think that Dowell can come back.. but in all likelihood that ship has sailed. None of our kids on loan if they had any sense would go out next year... they should stay and make sure Carlo sees them week in and week out. Wait for the injuries to mount, as they always do, and be there to slot in. Our recent passed of youth promotion is a litany of injury induced progression..

Anyway.. I beat this drum of holding recruitment to create a deliberate Progression route to the first team every year... nothing changes... and little will until a settled manager is in place I’m afraid.

So what would I do? Kenny would be my RB With Coleman support. We have a few in u23 who will feel they should be close now and should be back up to those two. CB bring Gibson home.
Spend the whole transfer pot on the midfield. Gordon should get at least 12 EPL starts next year no matter what big name is ahead of him.
For the first time since Lukaku left I’m not crying for a striker more because I want to see what Kean can do (also at least 12 EPL starts) and Richy has really come on centrally this year. Simms could be given the Kean role of coming off the bench to soak it up a bit - I sense no chance however.

bit of a long post.. but in my heart I think the manager wants a reboot. It’s incredibly tough to break in when you are competing with the world. I fully expect to see little youth progression next season as the manager recruits to plug the gaps that are all I’ve the park. At least Gordon appears to have earned some faith. I reckon we will see less of Davies and will definitely get another CB.

 

[jazzy]

Without going back to page 59 and quoting @catcherintherye i agree 100%. Last season when Zouma left I was happy to make Gibson our number 4 and had 100% confidence in Holgate in a time it seemed most (not all) wanted to cash in.
With Gibson coming back we should see that as the solution along with Branthwaite.

These two players are in the cusp and any new established signings knock them back, especially Gibson.

have more often than not continued with bang average performances from big name players at the expense of giving youth a proper run. Look to counter that it’s remarkable how much time DCL has been afforded. I’m still reserving my opinion though I’m afraid on him. But then I’ll counter that with Kean who get 5 mins at the end of a game.

I would love to think that Dowell can come back.. but in all likelihood that ship has sailed. None of our kids on loan if they had any sense would go out next year... they should stay and make sure Carlo sees them week in and week out. Wait for the injuries to mount, as they always do, and be there to slot in. Our recent passed of youth promotion is a litany of injury induced progression..

Anyway.. I beat this drum of holding recruitment to create a deliberate Progression route to the first team every year... nothing changes... and little will until a settled manager is in place I’m afraid.

So what would I do? Kenny would be my RB With Coleman support. We have a few in u23 who will feel they should be close now and should be back up to those two. CB bring Gibson home.
Spend the whole transfer pot on the midfield. Gordon should get at least 12 EPL starts next year no matter what big name is ahead of him.
For the first time since Lukaku left I’m not crying for a striker more because I want to see what Kean can do (also at least 12 EPL starts) and Richy has really come on centrally this year. Simms could be given the Kean role of coming off the bench to soak it up a bit - I sense no chance however.

bit of a long post.. but in my heart I think the manager wants a reboot. It’s incredibly tough to break in when you are competing with the world. I fully expect to see little youth progression next season as the manager recruits to plug the gaps that are all I’ve the park. At least Gordon appears to have earned some faith. I reckon we will see less of Davies and will definitely get another CB.

Good points.

We need some better quality at right back but it is a long way down the list of priorities .

We need to recruit at least 2 central midfielders and 1 wide midfield and that's where I see the majority of the budget going.

In an ideal world I'd then replace Mina or Keane and Coleman or Kenny with better quality but whether that is achievable on our budget I don't know.

We also need to replace Pickford with a solid , dependable keeper like Pope but once again it is a big ask financially and also to gel so many players in 1 go ( haven't we been here before )

It would be wonderful if we could introduce younger , homegrown players into the squad but I am far from sure that they are of enough quality.

Gordon looks a find and must be given a pathway. Kean I'm really not sure about. Came with a stellar reputation but Carlo wont give him game time in meaningless matches with no pressure - tells you something.

Branthwaite of the game and a bit that I have seen looks a tremendous prospect. I'm not a Brands fan but to be fair it looks like he unearthed a gem. I am more than happy with him as 4th choice centre back.

Doesn't Gibson play exactly the same position ( left sided centre half ) ? Not seen him play but I know @Eggs rates him.

Sadly Davies is very up and down and given his age and experience you would have hoped to see more progression but on balance I'd keep him for another year and see if Carlo can work his magic on him but I really don't see him as a starter.

DCL has seen a drop in form but his overall improvement this season has been startling and should be persevered with.

Richarlison , Digne and especially Holgate have been outstanding and we should build the team around them.

I'd happliy sell any of the others.

 

[Eggs]

Good points.

We need some better quality at right back but it is a long way down the list of priorities .

We need to recruit at least 2 central midfielders and 1 wide midfield and that's where I see the majority of the budget going.

In an ideal world I'd then replace Mina or Keane and Coleman or Kenny with better quality but whether that is achievable on our budget I don't know.

We also need to replace Pickford with a solid , dependable keeper like Pope but once again it is a big ask financially and also to gel so many players in 1 go ( haven't we been here before )

It would be wonderful if we could introduce younger , homegrown players into the squad but I am far from sure that they are of enough quality.

Gordon looks a find and must be given a pathway. Kean I'm really not sure about. Came with a stellar reputation but Carlo wont give him game time in meaningless matches with no pressure - tells you something.

Branthwaite of the game and a bit that I have seen looks a tremendous prospect. I'm not a Brands fan but to be fair it looks like he unearthed a gem. I am more than happy with him as 4th choice centre back.

Doesn't Gibson play exactly the same position ( left sided centre half ) ? Not seen him play but I know @Eggs rates him.

Sadly Davies is very up and down and given his age and experience you would have hoped to see more progression but on balance I'd keep him for another year and see if Carlo can work his magic on him but I really don't see him as a starter.

DCL has seen a drop in form but his overall improvement this season has been startling and should be persevered with.

Richarlison , Digne and especially Holgate have been outstanding and we should build the team around them.

I'd happliy sell any of the others.

...yep, I liked Gibson lots coming through the ranks but the step up to PL is massive and Branthwaite is demonstrating he could do it. I suspect Branthwaite has leapfrogged Gibson in the pecking order.

Both are left sided, both are big lads. Gibson is a more solid build, he’s quite comfortable on the ball but I always think he’s a defender who likes to defend. Branthwaite on the other hand looks classy on the ball but I think he’ll need to learn the art of defending.

With Branthwaite making an impressive breakthrough, I have my doubts about Gibson at Everton.

 

[messymascot]

He's also still 22 and you'd have been saying the same about Calvert-Lewin and Holgate last summer.

I always rated both Holgate and DCL. Personally I don't think he's good enough and any chance he did have is definitely over if we play 4-4-2. His chance was as a number 10 or on the right of the attacking 3 in a 4-2-3-1. I think he'll get a couple of games in preseason then hopefully we get a buyer.

 

[jazzy]

...yep, I liked Gibson lots coming through the ranks but the step up to PL is massive and Branthwaite is demonstrating he could do it. I suspect Branthwaite has leapfrogged Gibson in the pecking order.

Both are left sided, both are big lads. Gibson is a more solid build, he’s quite comfortable on the ball but I always think he’s a defender who likes to defend. Branthwaite on the other hand looks classy on the ball but I think he’ll need to learn the art of defending.

With Branthwaite making an impressive breakthrough, I have my doubts about Gibson at Everton.

If Gibson is a more solid build than Branthwiate he must be a really big lad !

I was hoping that Gibson , might perhaps , have been able to play left back , but it sounds like a no from what you said.

 

[messymascot]

...yep, I liked Gibson lots coming through the ranks but the step up to PL is massive and Branthwaite is demonstrating he could do it. I suspect Branthwaite has leapfrogged Gibson in the pecking order.

Both are left sided, both are big lads. Gibson is a more solid build, he’s quite comfortable on the ball but I always think he’s a defender who likes to defend. Branthwaite on the other hand looks classy on the ball but I think he’ll need to learn the art of defending.

With Branthwaite making an impressive breakthrough, I have my doubts about Gibson at Everton.

Personally I hope they both spend half a season on loan getting experience and half as 4th choice CB. I think they need to train with first team but also need game time so if we get Gibson Championship loan until Xmas then back keep Branthwaite he can play first half season in u23 whilst doing first team training and then if no first team opportunities come get him a loan for 2nd half of season.