Ukraine invasion and the sanction of Oligarchs

[Blue Roo]

Come on mate, theres no need to personalise something like that.

I am utterly opposed to the process that saw the transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich after the Soviet Union broke up. It was the biggest collapse in capitalism history, and a disaster. Look at the mess of Eastern Europe now. Completely stupid idea, based on the vanity and stupidity of Milton Freidman economics.

It's wrong to call this stealing though, or in the case of Moshiri specifically so. I don't know of any case hes ever been charged with, less convicted of. I am always in favour of an honest assessment if a situation. It is not honest to intimate he, or even Usmanov stole directly from people.

The reality is, this transition from poor to rich is the basis of capitalism mate. You wont find a rich person who's done it ethically. Christ, how do Americans or Brits think they built wealth up? It was in most cases from the slave labour built up over hundreds of years.

So if we are going to have this discussion, it needs to be nuanced. I appreciate that people sometimes want easy, binary conclusions. Things are more complex.

I appreciate your take on this. Nothing wrong with disagreement, but let's not stop to making accusations of who is or isnt in favour of things theyve clearly not said they are. ?

Well said.

 

[efcfanwirral]

At present, there is no injunction from USM in this country, so we ca benefit from USM funds. I have no idea how long for though. It's funny that Saudi are bombing Yemen but no injunction on their direct investment fund.

I agree with the other stuff you're saying but the above is probably the case for about a day or two - if they're on America's list they'll be on ours. It's happening, only question is when and what the club intend to do about it.

Megafon and USM will be all over Goodison on Saturday as things stand. Personally I don't care but I don't think that's a good look for the club, and I wonder if the PL will have something to say

 

[chicoazul]

Good debate in her on all sides.

I’m not even gonna antagonise it.

 

[catcherintherye]

Spot on.

You see very quickly who the b/s merchants are in situations like this. The Tory government is full of them. Going on about boots on the ground and all that. Yet the moments its needed, they shrink back.

We really dont need have a go heroes making ridiculous assertions now. We need some grown up politics, to get in and sort the mess out.

Ukraine were stupid to reject Macrons negotiation.

As a slight aside, the oligarchs will have ben preparing for years what to do in this situation. It's been highly telegraphed. They go to China, who will welcome them with open arms, and probably speed up Chinas inevitable journey to being the world super power. It wont hurt them, it will hurt ordinary Russians, and the poorest here who will pay through the nose with further inflation

People wont like that, but we should never apology for telling the truth.

 

[catcherintherye]

Good debate in her on all sides.

I’m not even gonna antagonise it.

I'm one step ahead of that here mate.

 

[efcfanwirral]

What a ridiculous statement , entirely devoid of a shred of morality.
In any case , regardless of our opinions , Everton will be unable to benefit from any further injections of funds from USM or any other source of similar provenance, while Russian forces are in Ukraine.
Which means that Moshiri ,whose personal wealth is entirely dependent on his close association with Usmanov , will have to use his accountancy skills to find alternative revenue streams free from Russian provenance.
It may be time for him to sell up.
Once again we are in a mess both on and off the pitch.

I guess only some of that money is gone long term - we won't struggle to find regular sponsors at reasonable rates. We just won't get the dodgy rates Usmanov was paying for things and probably have to reduce our wage bill to something we can actually afford.

I still don't know how we got away with that "first refusal on naming rights" that conveniently plugged the FFP hole. Is that fully boxed off and accepted or can it still be dragged up as its still within FFP timeframe?

 

[efcfanwirral]

You see very quickly who the b/s merchants are in situations like this. The Tory government is full of them. Going on about boots on the ground and all that. Yet the moments its needed, they shrink back.

We really dont need have a go heroes making ridiculous assertions now. We need some grown up politics, to get in and sort the mess out.

That did scare me a little earlier in the Parliament debate when a couple of them (old obviously) were making out we needed to provide military assistance. I was acutely aware they meant...well me, all of us at the right age, as the voluntary military wouldn't be close to enough against Russia.

 

[catcherintherye]

I agree with the other stuff you're saying but the above is probably the case for about a day or two - if they're on America's list they'll be on ours. It's happening, only question is when and what the club intend to do about it.

Megafon and USM will be all over Goodison on Saturday as things stand. Personally I don't care but I don't think that's a good look for the club, and I wonder if the PL will have something to say

Well I am doubtful. America sanctioned people who for years we kept off.

It is a different culture, not least because the Tories are far more indebted to all forms of big capital, including Russian capital.

They have also named 2 rounds of sanctions, the first for the initial peacekeeping mission, the 2nd for the movement of forces beyond that. That's already quite a lot. There may be more, but I suspect it will be held back as some sort of bargaining chip.

Who knows though. I try to deal in absolutes. We are not currently at a situation where USM are sanctioned. I think it would be pretty outrageous to sanction them too, but nothing surprises me about the British state.

 

[catcherintherye]

I guess only some of that money is gone long term - we won't struggle to find regular sponsors at reasonable rates. We just won't get the dodgy rates Usmanov was paying for things and probably have to reduce our wage bill to something we can actually afford.

I still don't know how we got away with that "first refusal on naming rights" that conveniently plugged the FFP hole. Is that fully boxed off and accepted or can it still be dragged up as its still within FFP timeframe?

That was an up front payment, so that's already been and gone.

 

[Blue Roo]

The only solution is for Russia to end up with sovereignty of the territory that includes the pipeline.
Anything else leaves the world in a very unstable position.

 

[Rob17896]

We are not associated with military oppression.

What utter nonsense.

Because we happen to be sponsored, by a business that happens to be based in Russia does not make us in any way responsible.

In the same way LFC, with a sponsor from a country with a far worse record on wars, are not responsible for the crimes of the US state.

Are all the teams in receipt of CL sponsorship from Gazprom also associated with it? Or just us?

Well as long as a FOOTBALL club can keep spending who cares about an invasion, installation of a puppet government and the rape and torture Ukrainians will have to endure once the Russian troops have control.

 

[catcherintherye]

That did scare me a little earlier in the Parliament debate when a couple of them (old obviously) were making out we needed to provide military assistance. I was acutely aware they meant...well me, all of us at the right age, as the voluntary military wouldn't be close to enough against Russia.

Yes that's what annoys me too. Posh, deluded fools who are not fighting a war in a million years, but happy to send the working class over to be gun fodder as they cant be bothered to effectively negotiate a peace deal.

Some of them, like Chris Bryant voted for the Iraq War, and are pointing the finger at businessmen for causing wars. Theyve got absolutely no shame whatsoever.

Imagine thinking we have to take any lecturers from the likes of them.

 

[catcherintherye]

Well as long as a FOOTBALL club can keep spending who cares about an invasion, installation of a puppet government and the rape and torture Ukrainians will have to endure once the Russian troops have control.

I care about an invasion, and want to get to a peaceful solution. Sanctions will not help that.

 

[Blue Roo]

It’s not just being his ‘mate’ though is it?
He is an important and powerful supporter and close ally of Putin and his government.
A government that is currently invading a major European country and pushing the world to the brink of war.
Everton Football Club should never be associated with acts of military oppression.

If Europe becomes reliant on Russia for energy and starts forming closer ties with Russia then US state and corporate power is significantly weakened.
The huge increase in military US presence in Europe along the current Russian border over the last two decades is staggering
The US has been pushing Russia and China towards war, and the world, for the last two decades.
this is indisputable and makes Russia moving into Ukraine inevitable

Its all part of the US grand plan to get rid of soccer and bring in american football

 

[Earwigjoe]

Alot of sabre rattling and grandstanding, there's no appetite for war in the west,the hawks will be made to sit down. Russia thankfully seems to have no interest in taking all of Ukraine, they'll stay in the Donbas till peacetalks begin. The 2 states will get their independence, Russia will withdraw with Crimea officially recognised as part of Russia. Probably their goal all along.imo.