The Tories have made me the man I am, the swines.
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2015 post UK election discussion
- Thread starter Groucho
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The Tories have made me the man I am, the swines.
D
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The Esk
Player Valuation: £70m
I am left wing and I would have baulked at what I am about to write 48 hours ago.
Some core Labour supporters and the unions are calling for a further lurch left. This would be suicide for the party, we need to dominate the centre ground. It is quite easy to get caught up in the left wing bubble here on merseyside, I am guilty of it myself.
The party need to be outward looking and realise that in order for Labour to be back in government there needs to be an appeal to 'Middle England' and big business. As much as I hate him I now understand why a few months back Blair said this would be a typical right vs left election which would result in only one winner. How we convince Scottish voters again and appeal to the demographic I mentioned in England is tricky, almost impossible some would argue. I dont have the answer but that will be the big topic of conversation at hustings when prospective new leaders are grilled.
Like it or not the ghost of Thatcher looms large over Britain - since 1979 Foot, Kinnock (2) and now Miliband have tried and failed to run a left wing campaign, lessons need to be learned and mistakes not repeated. England unlike Scotland is placed on the right of the political spectrum, the approach required to convince voters is different to our cousins north of the border. It is easy to point to the SNP and their anti austerity left wing message however Scotland has always been left wing, it is far easier convince voters there than in England.
I am not saying we need to abandon our values and what we stand for. The party is a broadchurch, instead marry the idea of a fairer and just society with the recognition that business needs to flourish for Britain to flourish.
Labour needs a long term plan. The next 5 years should be about building trust and creating a credible alternative. In the 2020 election it will be hard to turnaround 100 odd seats but not impossible, run a steady campaign nothing too radical which may upset people in positions of influence. If we win the election in 2020 demonstate we can govern well and handle the economy properly for 5 years, earn the trust of the electorate then in 2025 be more radical. Attack non doms and approach renationalisation of rail from a position of power rather than like they did this year from a weak base.
I am half way through writing a blog on this, I will post the link here when finished.
Some core Labour supporters and the unions are calling for a further lurch left. This would be suicide for the party, we need to dominate the centre ground. It is quite easy to get caught up in the left wing bubble here on merseyside, I am guilty of it myself.
The party need to be outward looking and realise that in order for Labour to be back in government there needs to be an appeal to 'Middle England' and big business. As much as I hate him I now understand why a few months back Blair said this would be a typical right vs left election which would result in only one winner. How we convince Scottish voters again and appeal to the demographic I mentioned in England is tricky, almost impossible some would argue. I dont have the answer but that will be the big topic of conversation at hustings when prospective new leaders are grilled.
Like it or not the ghost of Thatcher looms large over Britain - since 1979 Foot, Kinnock (2) and now Miliband have tried and failed to run a left wing campaign, lessons need to be learned and mistakes not repeated. England unlike Scotland is placed on the right of the political spectrum, the approach required to convince voters is different to our cousins north of the border. It is easy to point to the SNP and their anti austerity left wing message however Scotland has always been left wing, it is far easier convince voters there than in England.
I am not saying we need to abandon our values and what we stand for. The party is a broadchurch, instead marry the idea of a fairer and just society with the recognition that business needs to flourish for Britain to flourish.
Labour needs a long term plan. The next 5 years should be about building trust and creating a credible alternative. In the 2020 election it will be hard to turnaround 100 odd seats but not impossible, run a steady campaign nothing too radical which may upset people in positions of influence. If we win the election in 2020 demonstate we can govern well and handle the economy properly for 5 years, earn the trust of the electorate then in 2025 be more radical. Attack non doms and approach renationalisation of rail from a position of power rather than like they did this year from a weak base.
I am half way through writing a blog on this, I will post the link here when finished.
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Mrk
Player Valuation: £40m
Few succinct points on the outcome of the election:
- Astonishing result for the Tories. No government has ever been given such a mandate after one term in office since the early 1900's.
- The SNP are and will continue to be incredible and somewhat likeable, even if they wrong about many things.
- If the PLP and Labour supporters go on thinking that the reason Labour lost was because some newspapers didn't like Ed, they'll continue to lose elections. They lost because they had a weak leader and sh*t policies.
- The Liberals in the Lib Dems need to split from the SDP-types and reform the Liberal Party.
- The Scottish Labour Party needs to completely split from the Westminster Labour Party.
Seanjd
Player Valuation: £30m
Lady Luck not been in your side of late?
LOL at this virgin and his lifestyle guru theories
Seanjd
Player Valuation: £30m
I don't think many Labour supporters are claiming that they lost the election purely because of this, but the press are a massive ball and chain. As @chewee has eloquently explained above, I believe this is one reason it would be disastrous for Labour to split off to the left - they will consign themselves to history.
Mrk
Player Valuation: £40m
It always will be though. The press were a massive ball and chain on the Tories during the Blair years, but instead of moaning about it they managed to turn it around.
Mrk
Player Valuation: £40m
I don't think so.
Labour and the Tories strongly opposed (and apparently still do) AV and the electorate flatly rejected it.
I'd like to see radical voting reform, but I can't see it happening.
evilwebby
Player Valuation: £50m
If, as a Labour supporter, all you can come up with is scarebites like "bye bye NHS" then you fundamentally don't understand WHY this election was lost, and until you do then you will never again win an election.
Hate to break this to you, but the Left does NOT have a monopoly on things like compassion and social responsibility. Those values matter also to conservatives, we just believe that there are better ways to deliver them to as many people as possible than taking as much as tolerably possible from the groups who are most able to afford it.
Britain is not fundamentally socialist. We reject ideals of egalitarianism because we believe in Freedom and being rewarded according to your god given talent, allied to your will to work. When someone talks about one group having a RIGHT to something, they are equally, by implication, talking about someone else's OBLIGATION to provide that thing. There are TWO sides to everything. You don't have a *right* to healthcare or food, or a certain standard of living... any more than your neighbour is obligated to provide it to you. Does that mean people don't help each other, outside of the force of a gun pointed to their head? No, of course not. We just REFUSE to do it at the point of a gun. We also believe that YOU must do as much as you can to HELP YOURSELF.
The Left used to taunt the Tories by repeatedly saying "haven't won a general election since 1992".
Well, now the boot is on the other foot, look at this sequence:
418, 412, 345, 258, 229 - that is the number of seats that Labour has won at each election since 1997. Not exactly a pretty trend, is it? What are you going to do to reverse it? Lurching further to the left without any clear ideas how to cater for the majority of the country who believe in working hard to better themselves and take care of their own lot.... that will send you to political oblivion. You MUST find a way to capture people's aspiration to better themselves.
Those who sling the "selfish" label at the Right make the grave mistake of dismissing and not understanding the ideological appeal of the opposition. If you don't understand your opponent, how can you ever hope to beat them? Tony Blair brilliantly understood what made people vote Tory, so the grabbed the political middle ground with the idea of the 3rd way.
Hate to break this to you, but the Left does NOT have a monopoly on things like compassion and social responsibility. Those values matter also to conservatives, we just believe that there are better ways to deliver them to as many people as possible than taking as much as tolerably possible from the groups who are most able to afford it.
Britain is not fundamentally socialist. We reject ideals of egalitarianism because we believe in Freedom and being rewarded according to your god given talent, allied to your will to work. When someone talks about one group having a RIGHT to something, they are equally, by implication, talking about someone else's OBLIGATION to provide that thing. There are TWO sides to everything. You don't have a *right* to healthcare or food, or a certain standard of living... any more than your neighbour is obligated to provide it to you. Does that mean people don't help each other, outside of the force of a gun pointed to their head? No, of course not. We just REFUSE to do it at the point of a gun. We also believe that YOU must do as much as you can to HELP YOURSELF.
The Left used to taunt the Tories by repeatedly saying "haven't won a general election since 1992".
Well, now the boot is on the other foot, look at this sequence:
418, 412, 345, 258, 229 - that is the number of seats that Labour has won at each election since 1997. Not exactly a pretty trend, is it? What are you going to do to reverse it? Lurching further to the left without any clear ideas how to cater for the majority of the country who believe in working hard to better themselves and take care of their own lot.... that will send you to political oblivion. You MUST find a way to capture people's aspiration to better themselves.
Those who sling the "selfish" label at the Right make the grave mistake of dismissing and not understanding the ideological appeal of the opposition. If you don't understand your opponent, how can you ever hope to beat them? Tony Blair brilliantly understood what made people vote Tory, so the grabbed the political middle ground with the idea of the 3rd way.
Seanjd
Player Valuation: £30m
Murdoch backed a winner in that instance. It was always going to be a landslide because the Tory government were so popular. It helped that Blair occupied the centre ground, however, they would always return to their beloved Tory party the second there was a chance they would be voted back in, which is what happened.
Surprised we've not seen the headline "this lady has got balls"
I'm more surprised this lady hasn't cropped up in the 'secretly fancy' thread.
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