6 + 2 Point Deductions

[Ring master]

In the EPL? And what was the action?

Spurs' financial irregularities included the deduction of 12 points from next season's Premiership campaign, suspension from the 1994-95 FA Cup and a record pounds 600,000 fine plus costs. - i think they ended up with either 6 or zero in the end, just to name 1

 

[davek]

Don't get me wrong, I agree that at best we will get a token 2 or 3 back, but most probably it will stay as is. But let's not pretend other clubs can have a right of appeal or legal recourse regarding the punishment in any of this.

This is the crux of it though: we're in unchartered waters. The loss of PL status is so great that nothing can be ruled out.

Two years ago when Burnley and Leeds mooted the idea of taking the PL to court I laughed myself sick and then scratched my head as to how they could threaten the PL with a day in court...but it had a massive effect, because the media got wind of a scandal and then it got politicised.

Don't underestimate the level of interest in this from media and politicians...it has;t gone away.

 

[davek]

Spurs' financial irregularities included the deduction of 12 points from next season's Premiership campaign, suspension from the 1994-95 FA Cup and a record pounds 600,000 fine plus costs. - i think they ended up with either 6 or zero in the end, just to name 1

Was that reversal of the initial decision during the season or prior to it starting?

 

[Ring master]

Was that reversal of the initial decision during the season or prior to it starting?

Tottenham Appeal Against Punishment

The appeal against the penalties imposed by the FA inquiry into the charge of misconduct was held in early July. Chairman, Alan Sugar, was the man for the occasion – he presented Spurs’ case against all of the punishments. Having considered the case, the Appeal panel halved the points deduction to six but increased the fine to £1,500,000 as well as maintaining the Cup ban.

A Second Appeal

Sugar was still not satisfied and immediately announced that Spurs would again appeal against the penalties that had been imposed against the club. Sugar felt most aggrieved that the misconduct charges had been under a previous regime at the club and also that he had tried to co-operate with the FA over the investigation.

Spurs’ season started under the burden of a six point deduction but the arrival of Jurgen Klinsmann had given the club a much needed boost. The appeal, however, didn’t take place until early December.

On This Day, 9th December, 1994

Alan Sugar had his finest hour as he battled successfully against the Football Association to secure Spurs’ re-instatement to the FA Cup. Sugar had been so enraged by the punishment that he had promised to have the decision over turned. He was as good as his word and kept up the fight in spite of various set-backs and won the day, much to the delight of the fans who would be able to look forward to a 3rd Round home tie against Altrincham in January.

In the view of the arbitration tribunal, the FA’s charges against Spurs had been ‘misconceived, bad in law and should not have been proceeded with….. and it was irrational to impose any penalty other than a fine.’

The authorities had treated Spurs in a heavy handed manner, taking no account of Spurs full co-operation in the investigation and they certainly had not anticipated coming face to face with someone like Alan Sugar. Such an encounter showed the Spurs’ Chairman at his best – he would not be put down by those in authority and was prepared to fight to the bitter end to get justice for Tottenham Hotspur. It is interesting that subsequent inquiries involving other clubs dragged on interminably and quietly ‘white-washed’ all issues, with no-one coming to account.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

I still believe there'll be a storm if other clubs are inconvenienced. Not just Luton, but those just above us.

The question of when this appeal reports back already makes that case: other clubs as well as Everton need to know sooner rather than later the result of the appeal so they know what they have to do to survive, so the principle of others receiving a set back from this has already been acknowledged.

This isn't merely restricted to Everton.

Agreed. Our appeal sets the P&S sanction framework moving on that’s why it is so important.

There is no way the PL can reasonably make the case our deduction was proportionate and the basis for future cases. There will be a climb down Dave.

 

[MikeH72]

It takes away another key struggler for them to get above.

That's like me saying to you we'd not be adversely affected if Forest were handed another 20 points for some reason.

The whole action of handing a 10 point deduction has given Luton a much more realistic chance of avoiding relegation. Their case would be "well what sort of system is in play here whereby we made no transgressions to any rules but a club who was deemed to have done so and was punished for it now gets points back and we're floored by it?"

Did the EPL ever hand points back to a club? That's where Luton have just come from. I cant remember a case.

It’s not like that at all. We aren’t getting “handed” extra points. We have had 10 points taken off us.

 

[davek]

Tottenham Appeal Against Punishment

The appeal against the penalties imposed by the FA inquiry into the charge of misconduct was held in early July. Chairman, Alan Sugar, was the man for the occasion – he presented Spurs’ case against all of the punishments. Having considered the case, the Appeal panel halved the points deduction to six but increased the fine to £1,500,000 as well as maintaining the Cup ban.

A Second Appeal

Sugar was still not satisfied and immediately announced that Spurs would again appeal against the penalties that had been imposed against the club. Sugar felt most aggrieved that the misconduct charges had been under a previous regime at the club and also that he had tried to co-operate with the FA over the investigation.

Spurs’ season started under the burden of a six point deduction but the arrival of Jurgen Klinsmann had given the club a much needed boost. The appeal, however, didn’t take place until early December.

On This Day, 9th December, 1994

Alan Sugar had his finest hour as he battled successfully against the Football Association to secure Spurs’ re-instatement to the FA Cup. Sugar had been so enraged by the punishment that he had promised to have the decision over turned. He was as good as his word and kept up the fight in spite of various set-backs and won the day, much to the delight of the fans who would be able to look forward to a 3rd Round home tie against Altrincham in January.

In the view of the arbitration tribunal, the FA’s charges against Spurs had been ‘misconceived, bad in law and should not have been proceeded with….. and it was irrational to impose any penalty other than a fine.’

The authorities had treated Spurs in a heavy handed manner, taking no account of Spurs full co-operation in the investigation and they certainly had not anticipated coming face to face with someone like Alan Sugar. Such an encounter showed the Spurs’ Chairman at his best – he would not be put down by those in authority and was prepared to fight to the bitter end to get justice for Tottenham Hotspur. It is interesting that subsequent inquiries involving other clubs dragged on interminably and quietly ‘white-washed’ all issues, with no-one coming to account.

Different body though isn't it.

 

[mikel_88]

Agreed. Our appeal sets the P&S sanction framework moving on that’s why it is so important.

There is no way the PL can reasonably make the case our deduction was proportionate and the basis for future cases. There will be a climb down Dave.

Hopefully still cant trust them to do the right thing that is the problem, whole process have had all the media, league come after us while the others city and chelsea. Just quietly sit back and nothing is said, i do hope they will do the right thing but we can not trust them

 

[davek]

It’s not like that at all. We aren’t getting “handed” extra points. We have had 10 points taken off us.

I was replying in kind to an exaggerated incidence put forward by @Jacko93

 

[Ring master]

Different body though isn't it.

The quesion was "have points deductions been reduced on appeal" in the premier league - that was the answer.

 

[davek]

Agreed. Our appeal sets the P&S sanction framework moving on that’s why it is so important.

There is no way the PL can reasonably make the case our deduction was proportionate and the basis for future cases. There will be a climb down Dave.

I hope they do. They have the mechanism of an 'independent' appeal process to allow them to do so.

I just don't think this is confined to the PL though. We know that political interference was likely responsible for the heavy deduction in the first place and I doubt things have changed on that score.

This is something I'll gladly be wrong about, obviously.

 

[davek]

The quesion was "have points deductions been reduced on appeal" in the premier league - that was the answer.

But not by the PL.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

I hope they do. They have the mechanism of an 'independent' appeal process to allow them to do so.

I just don't think this is confined to the PL though. We know that political interference was likely responsible for the heavy deduction in the first place and I doubt things have changed on that score.

This is something I'll gladly be wrong about, obviously.

Agreed again. We were to be made an example of no doubt but sadly we made it easy for them as a useful idiot.

 

[hallamblue]

But not by the PL.

They've only deducted twice,3 points for Middlesbrough who didn't turn up to a game and 9 for Portsmouth going into administration I believe.

 

[duncs pigeon]

They've only deducted twice,3 points for Middlesbrough who didn't turn up to a game and 9 for Portsmouth going into administration I believe.

Arsenal 2pts and Man U 1 pt after the brawl at Highbury iirc