6 + 2 Point Deductions

[mikel_88]

Couldn't care less about them tbh.

The only thought in my mind is to get this misjustice overturned , it's got nothing to do with them.

100% agree with you, just after the -10 just cant trust the corrupt league will do the right thing. Best i can see is between 5/9 points, honestly woulf not shock me to see that it stays the same.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Do you think other PL clubs affected by any returned points wont kick up a storm of protest and appeals given the cost of relegation?

Of course they will....and then the whole FFP system comes further under scrutiny. The PL dont want that. Far better for them to refuse any appeal from Everton.

That's the path of least resistance and I fully expect them to take it.

dave,

Serious question, and correct me if I'm wrong.

Wasn't the basis of our representation that:
1) Stadium naming rights granted to the Russian, to the tune of £200 million, was in place in all but signing the contract, with the first payment of £20m due in the period in question (and then we know what happened re the Government & Russia); and
2) Wasn't the value of 'he who could not be named', which value could be offset in the accounts balance sheet, reduced to £0 by the FA, thereby also crippling our overall balance?

As far as I understand, those mitigating circumstances were not accepted/ignored.

dave, or anyone, is the foregoing correct, or is what I have previously read incorrect?

 

[Drico]

Couldn't care less about them tbh.

The only thought in my mind is to get this misjustice overturned , it's got nothing to do with them.

Exactly. Anybody banking on staying up because Everton have had 10 points deducted is already relegated.

 

[roydo]

dave,

Serious question, and correct me if I'm wrong.

Wasn't the basis of our representation that:
1) Stadium naming rights granted to the Russian, to the tune of £200 million, was in place in all but signing the contract, with the first payment of £20m due in the period in question (and then we know what happened re the Government & Russia); and
2) Wasn't the value of 'he who could not be named', which value could be offset in the accounts balance sheet, reduced to £0 by the FA, thereby also crippling our overall balance?

As far as I understand, those mitigating circumstances were not accepted/ignored.

dave, or anyone, is the foregoing correct, or is what I have previously read incorrect?

Not sure about the naming rights payment, but otherwise, on the right lines. But the kicker was that the PL told us we couldnt account for interest payments or sommet half way through the process, when they had previously said/suggested we could. Thats when we went all mea kulpa. Stinks either way.

 

[matty1878]

100% agree with you, just after the -10 just cant trust the corrupt league will do the right thing. Best i can see is between 5/9 points, honestly woulf not shock me to see that it stays the same.

it can’t tho to much media for it not to be

but then we’re hated so lol

 

[davek]

dave,

Serious question, and correct me if I'm wrong.

Wasn't the basis of our representation that:
1) Stadium naming rights granted to the Russian, to the tune of £200 million, was in place in all but signing the contract, with the first payment of £20m due in the period in question (and then we know what happened re the Government & Russia); and
2) Wasn't the value of 'he who could not be named', which value could be offset in the accounts balance sheet, reduced to £0 by the FA, thereby also crippling our overall balance?

As far as I understand, those mitigating circumstances were not accepted/ignored.

dave, or anyone, is the foregoing correct, or is what I have previously read incorrect?

Everton were done up like a kipper. Of course we were. The PL moved the goal posts regarding what could be claimed on infrastructure developments.

But that's all by the by. The issue is whether we should believe these bad faith actors will hand us anything back in terms of points.

For me, you have to be rational and say that there's not much chance of that. They have Everton's head on a pikestaff and they're not going to be minded to take it down. That would make them look weak and stupid...even if they could say it's an independent panel making that decision no one buys their independence from the PL.

 

[davek]

Sorry how could they possibly have a case to feel aggrieved about us getting points back that we’ve fairly won on the pitch? You’re acting as if we’d be getting generously donated an extra set of points, we wouldn’t, we’ve already got those points and they’ve been unfairly taken away from us. How the hell could anyone complain if we legitimately win the appeal and points get restored?

We are the only ones who have any right to feel aggrieved and go through an appeal process.

How could anyone have us up for charges of a non-sporting nature to then see us punished with a sporting penalty? How could they have no yardstick to punish us but still make one up?

These things aren't logical but they happen.

As said: if you're Luton and think you can get your Houdini act to stick this season and then the PL appeal process boosts your main competitor for survival with enough points to put them out of reach you're going to make a big stink of it and call the PL decision into question and demand inquiries and possibly threaten them with a day in court.

We all know that the best outcome for the PL would be to avoid that mess and for Everton to stay with -10 points and hope they won't be relegated...because even those melts realise a club the size of Everton + new stadium > Luton + their cow shed for their rotten league.

 

[Jacko93]

How could anyone have us up for charges of a non-sporting nature to then see us punished with a sporting penalty? How could they have no yardstick to punish us but still make one up?

These things aren't logical but they happen.

As said: if you're Luton and think you can get your Houdini act to stick this season and then the PL appeal process boosts your main competitor for survival with enough points to put them out of reach you're going to make a big stink of it and call the PL decision into question and demand inquiries and possibly threaten them with a day in court.

We all know that the best outcome for the PL would be to avoid that mess and for Everton to stay with -10 points and hope they won't be relegated...because even those melts realise a club the size of Everton + new stadium > Luton + their cow shed for their rotten league.

If Everton had 100 points added to our final tally for good will, it only increases Lutons current points requirement by 1.

They have absolutely no grounds for any procedure at all. Trying to make out they will is purely fear mongering and has no basis in reality whatsoever.

 

[davek]

3 of these relegation threatened teams weren't even in this league when the breaches took place.

And the reason as of now they are threatened with relegation is because they are not good enough regardless of Evertons points total.

That won't stop it happening. They'd just say it's the fault of the PL for allowing the Everton case to drag on into the next season without charging us. And they'd see the appeal processes about as independent as we view them.

I mean, I hope they are looking at that situation and frustrated aa we get crucial points shown back. But I cant see them having to face that.

Things are simple now. The Gordian knot has been cut. If we get points handed back the whole thing get's tied up in knots again.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Do you think other PL clubs affected by any returned points wont kick up a storm of protest and appeals given the cost of relegation?

Of course they will....and then the whole FFP system comes further under scrutiny. The PL dont want that. Far better for them to refuse any appeal from Everton.

That's the path of least resistance and I fully expect them to take it.

Other clubs won’t be in a position to appeal anything though in the true sense as our outcome will be the final word on our own matter.

Our case is based on there being no defined sanctions policy and as such the 10 point deduction is unreasonably high given other football financial cases i.e administration. We will definitely get some of our points back on that basis- I predict 6.

Us partially winning our appeal is for me the course of least resistance for the PL as either way they now must establish a sanctions policy in respect of P&S. Better to concede on us than leave a precedent of a 5 point deduction for every £10m a club is in breach.

 

[bluenorthwarrior]

They're litigious. In any case there will bound to be counter appeals about Everton getting points back and placing them further down the table.

The PL will want to avoid that mess.

Counter appeals from who? No other club has any mechanism to 'counter appeal' the outcome of this. The case is between the PL and Everton, the agreed rules governing this are clear. Could the PL counter appeal the result of the appeal? Not sure, but other clubs certainly can't.

Is it legal action then? Again not possible, in the same way that the rules governing this prevent Everton from taking the case outside of the PL panel there is no ability for a club to take legal action related to this offence and punishment.

The legal action touted by Burnley et al relates to essentially a private civil prosecution suing for financial damages caused by the now 'proven' rule-breaking of Everton in previous seasons that they can show direct causal relationship for. But even these cases appear to have been dropped so must have been highly doubtful legally.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that at best we will get a token 2 or 3 back, but most probably it will stay as is. But let's not pretend other clubs can have a right of appeal or legal recourse regarding the punishment in any of this.

 

[davek]

If Everton had 100 points added to our final tally for good will, it only increases Lutons current points requirement by 1.

They have absolutely no grounds for any procedure at all. Trying to make out they will is purely fear mongering and has no basis in reality whatsoever.

It takes away another key struggler for them to get above.

That's like me saying to you we'd not be adversely affected if Forest were handed another 20 points for some reason.

The whole action of handing a 10 point deduction has given Luton a much more realistic chance of avoiding relegation. Their case would be "well what sort of system is in play here whereby we made no transgressions to any rules but a club who was deemed to have done so and was punished for it now gets points back and we're floored by it?"

Did the EPL ever hand points back to a club? That's where Luton have just come from. I cant remember a case.

 

[hallamblue]

It takes away another key struggler for them to get above.

That's like me saying to you we'd not be adversely affected if Forest were handed another 20 points for some reason.

The whole action of handing a 10 point deduction has given Luton a much more realistic chance of avoiding relegation. Their case would be "well what sort of system is in play here whereby we made no transgressions to any rules but a club who was deemed to have done so and was punished for it now gets points back and we're floored by it?"

Did the EPL ever hand points back to a club? That's where Luton have just come from. I cant remember a case.

Yes some clubs have had points deductions reduced on appeal.

 

[davek]

Other clubs won’t be in a position to appeal anything though in the true sense as our outcome will be the final word on our own matter.

Our case is based on there being no defined sanctions policy and as such the 10 point deduction is unreasonably high given other football financial cases i.e administration. We will definitely get some of our points back on that basis- I predict 6.

Us partially winning our appeal is for me the course of least resistance for the PL as either way they now must establish a sanctions policy in respect of P&S. Better to concede on us than leave a precedent of a 5 point deduction for every £10m a club is in breach.

I still believe there'll be a storm if other clubs are inconvenienced. Not just Luton, but those just above us.

The question of when this appeal reports back already makes that case: other clubs as well as Everton need to know sooner rather than later the result of the appeal so they know what they have to do to survive, so the principle of others receiving a set back from this has already been acknowledged.

This isn't merely restricted to Everton.

 

[davek]

Yes some clubs have had points deductions reduced on appeal.

In the EPL? And what was the action?