777 Partners / Whatever the hell you like

[HalfTimeSayers]

To be more precise... Moshiri would like/wants £1.1billion and that's why nobody is buying...

There's nobody out there dumb enough to pay that kind of money for a business with so many overheads. commitments, debts and no assets other than the players.

In the past there would be a slim hope of a mega rich romantic buying a club as a status symbol and weekend plaything. There is zero incentive to do that these days as no matter rich you are, you are limited in the amount you can spend on the squad, so you would end up telling your mates in Monaco about Godfreys latest sliced clearance into the path of a lethal striker, and another great performance resulting in a baffling loss.

Add that to the fact that it’s very difficult to see how any profit hungry cold investors buy us looking for a quick return, which is why calling 777 potential asset strippers is ludicrous when we have few assets but massive massive liabilities, all secured on the current and future assets we do have.

There appears to be no incentive to buy a club in our position, so anyone doing so wants locking up for their own safety.

 

[roydo]

I dont think we are appealing as others think.

We are a club with hardly any assets, a half built, part paid for Stadium with huge internal and external debts.

A clever investor waits for the Stadium to be built at the very least and takes 1 "problem" off the table.



You see these Everton fans, no ambition like the owner, if these Middle Eastern chaps have got the dough they say they have, we want China.

That stadium, when built, is a massive asset though. I agree that Everton, 14th Sept 2023 aint all that, investor wise. But there were reasons that Moshiri and Son rocked up. All of those reasons remain.

Put it this way, if baldy nonce hadnt got a stiffy for Ukraine, no way would Moshiri and Son be looking to sell up.

 

[Goat]

Clearly you must be right as that is how its playing out. But I just conflate that with the fact most of these clubs are not cash generating, the limited market of clubs for sale to begin with and that in a 10 year cycle the possibility if run correctly to double or triple the evaluation. There are exceptions but the majority of profit for owners is on resale. Moshiri is maybe a cautionary tale in which his financing over the duration of ownership has likely outweighed any potential of profit when added to what he bought the club for. IDK I just think there are slim margins to buy a club historically in a certain echelon and media potential. Clearly the books must be really bad if we dont a appear an alternative for prospective owners willing to spend triple for acquisition of other clubs.

IF you consider that Newcastle was sold for 300m, with a decent stadium and I think very little debt?

Then when you factor in money Moshiri would want, 600m? Our internal debt, 150m? Our external debt, 200m? Then lets say another 3-400m for The Stadium?

Thats a lot of money for a club that then needs potentially another 200m spent on players to just have a squad next Summer.

 

[Moomin]

None of your fans want state ownership according to this forum.

I would probably walk away myself and follow non league and other sports.

 

[Goat]

That stadium, when built, is a massive asset though. I agree that Everton, 14th Sept 2023 aint all that, investor wise. But there were reasons that Moshiri and Son rocked up. All of those reasons remain.

Put it this way, if baldy nonce hadnt got a stiffy for Ukraine, no way would Moshiri and Son be looking to sell up.

Its a massive asset that still needs paying for.

Its not a free Stadium like City and West Ham got.

Spurs have massive debt regarding the Stadium, but they at least have a loan.

 

[Goat]

I would probably walk away myself and follow non league and other sports.

Nar you wouldnt.

IF people tolerate Kenwright, they will tolerate anything.

 

[windymiller]

Not sure profit is the right word. I think the words are "cash generating cow" rather than profit.

The person buying us will load that cost onto the club and with the huge revenues mainly generated by the tv contracts, use that to pay down that debt each year. Extract money each year in dividends/interest from monies loaned to the club. You then increase your revenues by sponsorships (stadium, kit sales) and this helps with heritage and winning trophies. Having a bigger stadium increases your gate receipts plus having a multi use stadium increases revenue available to the club outside of match days.

All of the above is the way the Glaziers have operated. Man Utd are a huge cash generator but they can service their debt. When was the last time they made a profit, yet their revenues seem to keep on going up.

You fall through the PL trap door and suddenly the money you had coming through the door drys up and you can't pay back the loan you used to initially buy the club. The debt is fine as long as you can service it.

I agree though, it will be 777 or something/someone similar of that ilk who can raise that initial cash to pay out Moshi (and his paymaster) and the other shareholders. Where that money comes from is the concern and how that is raised?

You're right, profit is the wrong word. They're looking to generate a consistent revenue stream from a club, I also think that is pie in the sky for us for at least the next four or five years but maybe after that there is some scope for it. They also can't do it quite the same way the Glazers did it because of the new rules regarding leveraged buyouts (which I fully support), which also makes us less attractive.

Not sure where all this goes but I suspect it will get worse, maybe a lot worse, before it gets better.

 

[windymiller]

I do think football has gone to [Poor language removed] generally and it can be said about a lot of sports, so at one point I just stopped following sports very passionately and focused only on a world small enough that the absolute nonsense outside it did not matter to me anymore. But I make every endeavour to be informed about them. To me, that world is Everton not football, but Everton.

I think there may be are others like me outside of the UK who think like this. Personally, I don't understand the whole reasoning behind the 'big teams' as some of them have essentially birthed themselves yesterday. We are arguably a very archaic institution, one that has forgotten what it was and also how it got there. We may never win anything for a considerable time yet but I will be satisfied if Everton can just find Everton. These other teams that seem to capture the current mainstream discourse about the game are essentially useful only for children who are squabbling over new toys and that's it, and I feel football has suffered for it. Of course, it does not mean that good football teams do not exist out there.

We are not entirely beyond hope, once again, I know people harp on about Brentford and Brighton today, but I am not very fond of such a style of club management. I understand why they do it, but I do not want such a thing for Everton. I believe that in our team, there has to a be a core that is essentially untouchable. It is not a matter of whether they are profitable assets or not, they are part of the infrastructure necessary for the functioning of Everton Football Club. Find something else to sell and that is why I felt bad when Richarlison was sold in recent years, why I felt bad that Osman or Baines were not given proper treatment by the club, and why I would feel bad if we ever sold Pickford.

In my opinion, the biggest problem that is facing Everton Football Club at the moment is a twist on the philosophical question posed by 'Ship of Theseus'. If we replace all the working components of an entity one by one then (stripped of value too) leaving faulty parts behind, then is the entity (rust heap) left at the end still the same entity?

It's not the same entity at all. When Goodison goes there will be scant connection between the club of 2025 and the club I grew up with. I wouldn't be surprised to see EitC on the chopping block next.

 

[roydo]

IF you consider that Newcastle was sold for 300m, with a decent stadium and I think very little debt?

Then when you factor in money Moshiri would want, 600m? Our internal debt, 150m? Our external debt, 200m? Then lets say another 3-400m for The Stadium?

Thats a lot of money for a club that then needs potentially another 200m spent on players to just have a squad next Summer.

Dont disagree, but it is buyers motive. Like City. I think Everton 2033, PL assumed, would be a hugely rewarding investment today.

 

[Moomin]

Nar you wouldnt.

IF people tolerate Kenwright, they will tolerate anything.

I gave my season ticket up when the fans clapped him at the Villa game. I've been back to Goodison twice since.

 

[Yarrgh]

They would all be welcomed back within six months if the war in Ukraine finished.

Never underestimate the lust for money, no matter how dirty, by the UK government and British financial system. Would be back the moment the ink was dry on the peace deal.

 

[AndyC]

Not sure why people take what this guy says for facts, the esk does have info on the club but the way he says it is facts. About how much the club can spend, trqnsfers ext has got plenty wrong. Yes he does have some better ideas on the money side but again does not have all the facts.

Mate,
You're basing this comment largely on two tweets about Witsel and Mata.

All of his financial articles and podcasts about the clubs finances are sent to the club... to each individual board member and Moshiri... with assurances that if they can demonstrate or prove any of his figures to be inaccurate, wrong or misleading he will immediately retract and apologise.
Have you seen any retractions ?
No.
Why not ?
Could it be because his financial projections are so close to factual or bang on the mark ?

 

[windymiller]

Here is the thing, I don't think we are that expensive or rubbish by the way, at least from a financial perspective. And that is the argument from a lot of people on here.
There are ways to structure any deal to make it affordable enough to even a pauper though, like you have mentioned.
The issue is whether or not Football in its current form is even profitable from purely a sporting perspective, none of the clubs can remain profitable from prize money alone.
The commercial contracts and broadcast income are the bread and butter, and so it is no longer just sport but entertainment. And sooo, are you not entertained? Granted it is shady page 3 type stuff.
This is where I think Spurs are still considered a successful club, obviously not because of their trophy cabinet but because of good commercial operations (that I know of). Of course, it also helps when you have people like Kane, Modric, Bale, Berbatov, and arguably more importantly Son.

I think we are expensive. A billion quid for a team that is in it's third consecutive relegation battle, and is one of the favourites to actually be relegated this year, and that has more liabilities than it currently has in assets doesn't seem like a good bet. We also generate comparatively little commercially than other clubs, I suppose you could argue that that means there is scope for growth but I'm not sure myself.

In terms of football as entertainment, have you watched us play for the past six seasons? It's painful stuff.

 

[Goat]

All of his financial articles and podcasts about the clubs finances are sent to the club... to each individual board member and Moshiri... with assurances that if they can demonstrate or prove any of his figures to be inaccurate, wrong or misleading he will immediately retract and apologise.

Oh christ.

I cant even.

 

[AndyC]

That stadium, when built, is a massive asset though. I agree that Everton, 14th Sept 2023 aint all that, investor wise. But there were reasons that Moshiri and Son rocked up. All of those reasons remain.

Put it this way, if baldy nonce hadnt got a stiffy for Ukraine, no way would Moshiri and Son be looking to sell up.

Will be an asset to the stadium ownership company, not necessarily Everton FC who might simply be a client in need of a venue to rent.