Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

Al Gore, what a loser.

Status
Not open for further replies.
the climate crisis wasn't invented by scientists to piss of right wingers and petrolheads.

Leon theres a hell of a lot of Scientists who have published findings that either dismiss certain claims or laugh at the claimed degree of the problem.

I agree with Al Gore that maybe people should be more open minded about 'the crimate crisis' because at the moment, the vast majority of people just assume theres this huge problem when maybe in reality its all been blown out of proportion.

Look at the recent floodings, a lot of people were saying 'look, first hand proof of climate crisis, the government should act now blah blah'. Do these people not think theres been similar floods 50+, 100+, 200+ 500+ years ago?
 
theres a hell of alot of notoriety, free publicity and corporate grants for scientists publishing papers that disparage the global warming theory.

the original motivation behind global warming was scientific and humanitarian.


what's there excuse?

(p.s ta for the vpoints back, I think I've just blown them all though)
 
Leon theres a hell of a lot of Scientists who have published findings that either dismiss certain claims or laugh at the claimed degree of the problem.

I agree with Al Gore that maybe people should be more open minded about 'the crimate crisis' because at the moment, the vast majority of people just assume theres this huge problem when maybe in reality its all been blown out of proportion.

Look at the recent floodings, a lot of people were saying 'look, first hand proof of climate crisis, the government should act now blah blah'. Do these people not think theres been similar floods 50+, 100+, 200+ 500+ years ago?

Without hair splitting there is absolutely no previous evidence of the melting taking place at the poles and even those who say that global warming doesn't mean anything can't explain that, try telling low lying countries that flooding is just a phnomenon when they become engulfed.
 
Without hair splitting there is absolutely no previous evidence of the melting taking place at the poles and even those who say that global warming doesn't mean anything can't explain that, try telling low lying countries that flooding is just a phnomenon when they become engulfed.

At one point, there was no previous evidence of the world being round.
 
theres a hell of alot of notoriety, free publicity and corporate grants for scientists publishing papers that disparage the global warming theory.

the original motivation behind global warming was scientific and humanitarian.

If Science has never been wrong then i'd agree, but it has been, on many many occasions.

Taking phrenology as an example, maybe it is wiser to have a more open minded opinion before taking global warming/climate crisis as gospel?
 

It depends what you're afraid of really though doesn't it? Lets look at some of the proposed solutions to climate change:

1. Increased use of renewable energy - You may think that the oil companies are big, but in fact most of the oil is in the hands of governments, many of whom are more than happy to use their new found international clout for political means. Do some research on Russia and how they regularly switch off energy supplies to countries that don't curry favour with them. Venezuala are trying to build up a large socialist alliance in South America. Iran, well everyone knows about Iran. The notion that we should be looking at alternative to fossil fuels is a no brainer both from a security point of view and a climate point of view.

2. Improved energy efficiency. This is another no brainer for me. Energy efficiency gains enable us to do much more with less. It's widely reported that something as simple as switching every light bulb in the world to low energy versions would cut global usage by around 10%. You use less energy, you save money. It's not rocket science.

They're the obvious ones, both getting cleaner energy and using the energy we do have more efficiently. Both are no brainers as they should be done regardless of any climate concerns.

But of course then you have the government sticking its beak into it. I suspect in large parts that this is where any animosity and suspicion comes from. There are numerous opportunities for enlightened governments to offer what are known as feebates on environmental issues. The basic principal is that you set your target level of something, lets say energy usage per capita or carbon emissions or waste or whatever. You go over the limit, you pay. You go under the limit and they pay you. Simple really and it doesn't cost anything because the sinners pay for the saints. Unfortunately governments seem keen to punish the sinners but not so keen on rewarding the saints. Hence we have suspicion that many green tax drives are simply there to raise money, and to be honest with some justification.

I suspect the other main sticking point for the average Joe is the rather pious attitude of some environmentalists who believe that the only change liable to work is a major change in how we live our lives. Everything from the food we eat to the places we go on holiday have to be looked at from a green point of view. Alas I don't personally believe that the environment is a key priority for most, and indeed me, with things such as education, employment, health etc. all taking priority. This is where the feebate system could come in because it plays into the base desire of us all to make money.

My two penneth anyway. There's a range of opinion on the forum in my sig if people wanted to read any of it (and by range I mean we're not all string vest wearing hippies ;) )
 
It is undeniable that pollution and global warming aren't a problem. You can actually see the difference between nowadays and before when it wasn't so bad. Now i don't think that the next ice age will be in 10 years if we don't do someting but this is a massive problem that has to be dealt with.
 
If Science has never been wrong then i'd agree, but it has been, on many many occasions.

Taking phrenology as an example, maybe it is wiser to have a more open minded opinion before taking global warming/climate crisis as gospel?

It's for this exact reason why I don't really support government action on a lot of things. It's simple law of averages. The beauty of markets is that they encourage competition, they encourage many companies to try differing ways of solving a single problem. The law of averages dictates that at least one of those potential solutions will hit the jackpot. Of course it doesn't always work out but nine times out of ten I think it does.

Contrast that with a government backed solution. Governments by their very nature are monopolies so they back what they think is the best solution. If they're right then cool, hunky dory. If they're wrong then you're often back to square one. The nature of politics being consensual leads me to believe that the solution to climate change (or indeed societal problem) will be found by the markets. Look at nuclear power as an example. Now I don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of nuclear, but government after government have been peddling the idea of building new nuclear plants. It's been going round Westminster since the 1980's and because of the consensual approach to politics we sit here 25 years later with still nothing being done. The government suggest they're willing to back a new nuclear program but I wouldn't put my house on anything happening under this administration.
 
Well I have my opinions on this but my big advantage is that I won't see the effects, you lot will, enjoy:P
 

The beauty of markets is that they encourage competition, they encourage many companies to try differing ways of solving a single problem.

Just in the same way that you criticize government intervention and social redistribution because it doesn't work (in the way that you would like) you then give a free pass to the unbridled market system.

Free markets are the same as most religions, a nice idea if ever anyone ever tried it. Unfortunately, most of what we have promoted as a "free market system" is the same pattern of business which has led to monopolistic or oligopolistic behaviour contrary to the free market ideals, whether that has been in raw materials, the defence or auto industries, software, sports or retail franchising. And then appealed to the despised central or local government for funding whether it is in term of pork-barrel politics or in taking advantage of social welfare programs.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome to GrandOldTeam

Get involved. Registration is simple and free.

Back
Top