TX Bill
Player Valuation: £80m
If it saved the lives of many innocent people, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
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Al Gore, what a loser.
- Thread starter TX Bill
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If it saved the lives of many innocent people, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
This place is deep as [Poor language removed] tonight.
You can only choose three pizza toppings, what would they be?
You can only choose three pizza toppings, what would they be?
TX Bill
Player Valuation: £80m
Communism usually benefits the people at the top with those at the bottom barely making it. Foreign policy of Cuba? Don't think so but yes, there are times I wish my country would just close up shop for awhile and let things stand as they are. Unfortunately, 9/11 changed that type of thinking and no telling when things might calm down.
I would hate to have a national health care system just due to the issues that come with that. Our current system isn't perfect but I think it's better than the alternatives.
Man, too bad Cuba doesn't become a democracy. I could only imagine how well they'd do from a tourist standpoint if one day, all Americans could fly straight to Havana.
They'd kill it as I'm sure there are plenty of nice areas in Cuba (I know very little of the island itself). I'm guessing they'd bring in so much revenue that they'd be able to renovate/repair areas that really need it. That and the standard of living would more than likely improve.
TX Bill
Player Valuation: £80m
I think that part of the charm of Cuba is non consumerism, for some it can be frustrating for many others refreshing.
Good choice on the pizza.
Good choice on the pizza.
SuitsBlue
Player Valuation: £50m
if its the only deterrent then its the only option. suddenly would be terrorists would have to consider the aftermath of their actions personable to them.
TX Bill
Player Valuation: £80m
Well that may very well be the case. That the island hasn't been overrun with tourists like so many other popular destinations and has retained it's original charm.
In other words, you don't see a McDonalds on every other corner.
loosecranks
Player Valuation: £950k
If you say so, TX. I take it from that you don't actually know much about 'the alternatives'?
" I suspect that, ultimately, the most persuasive argument against the present system, for most Americans, will be that they are simply not getting bang for their bucks. Last year they spent $2.1trn, or roughly $7,000 per American, on health care - a figure expected to double by 2016, and which represents 16 per cent of the nation's GDP. Half of this is spent on just 5 per cent of the population. The average yearly cost of a family insurance plan purchased by employers is now $12,106, plus an additional $4,479 paid by the employee; as a result of these hugely increased costs, only 59.7 per cent of American workers are covered by their employers' health plans.
Yet what do Americans get from all this monumental expenditure? The leitmotif of Michael Moore's latest fulminating documentary, Sicko, which has already grossed more than $25m in the US since its release in June and opens in Britain this month, is that Britons, Cubans and the French receive much better health care than Americans - a theme that is largely true, but undermined by Moore's portrayal of those countries' systems as positively utopian. Britain spends just $2,560 per citizen on health care, Australia $3,128 and France $3,191; yet a report this year by the Commonwealth Fund (a highly respected American charity) found that the US lags well behind these countries in the quality, access, efficiency and outcome of their wildly differing expenditures.
Put more brutally, the US ranked 22nd in infant mortality (between Taiwan and Croatia), 46th in life expectancy (between St Helena and Cyprus) and 37th in health system performance (between Costa Rica and Slovenia). In the "efficiency" ratings, the US came last. More American women are dying in childbirth today than were decades ago. The non-partisan Kaiser Family Foundation reports that 28 per cent of Americans have delayed their medical treatment, often for serious conditions, because of cost. And the Institute of Medicine calculates that 18,000 Americans die unnecessarily every year because they have no medical insurance."
Man, you've got faith, I'll give you that, but you, too, could do with taking a leaf out of Chico's book, and stop believing all that you're told.
Here's the rest of that article, if you're interested: http://www.newstatesman.com/200710040028
TX Bill
Player Valuation: £80m
Hard to believe but I actually wish we could reason with these people and tell 'em, "Look, things aren't gonna change in the West and we have the right to live the way we want to live whether you agree with it or not."
I think that's the most frustrating part of the whole deal. They honestly don't care about others. It's their way or the highway and they'd just as soon kill you for it vs. they live their way and you live your way.
To demonstrate my complete hypocrisy: I have day dreams about Big Macs.
Allegedly there's one in Guantanamo, which is useless for moi.
Allegedly there's one in Guantanamo, which is useless for moi.
TX Bill
Player Valuation: £80m
Michael Moore is a fraud pure and simple. To quote anything he's done tells me I'm not the one who's "got faith." But hey, he's anti Bush, anti Republican, and anti conservative so what he says MUST be true. Let me give you a little tip. Don't ever quote anything from or lend any credence to what Michael Moore has done in his life. He is and continues to be an embarassement and a hypocrite to boot. But that's a different story for a different day.
No, Loose, the problem I have with the National Healthcare systems is the wait time to get procedures done. Some wait times can last as long as three months.
We don't have that issue here.
You're not really gonna try and tell me that you're actually getting the value for what Britain, France, and Australia are paying for are you? Are you really gonna quote 18,000 Americans out of a population of 300 million? That's statistically insignificant and you know it.
Give Americans a choice and they'll take what they're getting right now vs. socialized medicine.
Speaking of, that's one of Hillary's big platforms, national healthcare. Let's see how well that goes over with the voters. After all, it ain't free. Who's gonna pay for it Loose? You? No, the American taxpayer will have to shoulder that cost. National Healthcare isn't on the "gotta have" list of most voters in this country on both sides of the aisle. Too many problems with it.
I want less government as it is, not more and I sure as hell don't want government involved when it comes to medicine and heathcare.
Like I said, our system isn't perfect but it's better than the alternatives.
coughs*
Bruce?
Bruce?
loosecranks
Player Valuation: £950k
Bwaa! Too funny. I purposely slipped Moore's name in there, just to see if you really were so blinkered. 
Moore gets one mention in that article, and even that isn't a flattering one, and you have to cherrypick his name as though that alone discredits an article by an experienced and widely respected journalist.
18,000 dead Americans may seem insignificant to you, though it's probably quite significant to them. How about the 90,000,000 Americans who according to "Families USA, a non-profit consumer health care advocacy organisation ... found themselves uninsured for at least some period during 2006-2007." Still insignificant.
I see there's no point presenting you with facts, TX, you clearly prefer to put ideology ahead of reality. Ho hum.
Moore gets one mention in that article, and even that isn't a flattering one, and you have to cherrypick his name as though that alone discredits an article by an experienced and widely respected journalist.
18,000 dead Americans may seem insignificant to you, though it's probably quite significant to them. How about the 90,000,000 Americans who according to "Families USA, a non-profit consumer health care advocacy organisation ... found themselves uninsured for at least some period during 2006-2007." Still insignificant.
I see there's no point presenting you with facts, TX, you clearly prefer to put ideology ahead of reality. Ho hum.
SuitsBlue
Player Valuation: £50m
without naming names we are both talking about the same sect of terrorists, them lot that consider 'non believers' infidels. thats not to taint the law abiding pleasant individuals that believe in that faith.
im not sure if certain extremists would go the distance if it meant condemning their ENTIRE family to death.
tolerance is what we supposedly pursue, but its flimsy.
TX Bill
Player Valuation: £80m
Bwaa! Too funny. I purposely slipped Moore's name in there, just to see if you really were so blinkered.
Moore gets one mention in that article, and even that isn't a flattering one, and you have to cherrypick his name as though that alone discredits an article by an experienced and widely respected journalist.
18,000 dead Americans may seem insignificant to you, though it's probably quite significant to them. How about the 90,000,000 Americans who according to "Families USA, a non-profit consumer health care advocacy organisation ... found themselves uninsured for at least some period during 2006-2007." Still insignificant.
I see there's no point presenting you with facts, TX, you clearly prefer to put ideology ahead of reality. Ho hum.
When you present a fact, I'll listen. And putting ideology ahead of reality. Classic liberal line that. Pot, meet kettle. The minute your "widely respected" journalist quoted Moore, he threw what credibility he had down the drain.
90MM Americans uninsured at one point in '06-'07. Hmmm. How many of that 90MM were the 38MM illegal immigrants here? How many of those were through job changes or transitions where they were uncovered for a period of time. How many of those hit the age 65 level within that year that they weren't covered? That would be important to know don't you think?
Here's the money quote from Mr. Pollack who started up Families USA:
The number of uninsured has reached crisis proportions that must be addressed by the President and Congress to ensure that health coverage is available and affordable for all," Pollack said.
Hmmmm.... Sounds like a sure fire call for National Healthcare to me. "Crisis proportions." If I didn't know what he was talking about, I'd have thought he was talking about Global Warming. No coincidence then that he worked in under the Clinton Administration then? Nah, couldn't be.
Again, you bring the facts, and I'll listen. But don't sit here and try to tell me that a socialized medicine program would be an improvement over what we already have. People here know better.
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