Anything to declare?

[Efcjake]

Timing is everything.

Thanks for all the positive comments in here and not turning it into a name and shame exercise. Loads of really interesting ideas raised by others.

The Ian Ross thing is always one of the most incredible (in all senses of the word) fan 'engagement' activities that I've seen. He posted under the alias 'Ruperts_Tower' on Kipper as well - which was an absolute nest of antiboard sentiment - and he was not only as you'd expect totally on club message, he was pretty vicious to a number of other posters.

It's difficult to describe the approach these days as more subtle; I agree with suggestions that we are all far more aware and jaded by the soft nudging these days, but the 'deniability' and arms length nature of the influence is more competent.

However it is said that we buy newspapers that, rather than tell us the news, reinforce or reaffirm our views on the 'olds'. Marketing feels much the same; we just want to be told how great everything is.

Like clockwork.

 

[leslad]

Evertonians as a group I'd say are more cynical and discerning than the next person. Scousers generally look down upon those we see as "soft" or gullible and we've been lied to by the club plenty of times in the past few decades.

I'd say I got sucked into believing that the 100 million transfer budget was a possibility last year. It wasn't immediate though as my initial reaction was traditional Evertonian cynicism though as one of my Canadian converted brethren excitedly told me about the links to Witsel and Mata(players within the scope of his limited cross section of knowledge of Everton players and decent players on FIFA) which I responded to by immediately telling him it was a load of BS from the usual rags and "wait until they hold up the shirt" etc.

Over time, probably influenced by things read on here and in the papers repeating those claims, I wanted to believe that it was true. That we might actually be in for Witsel and Mata or Koulibaly. You're right to preach the importance of critical thinking and discerning the reliability of the information presented to you. Sometimes that can go to pot, especially when the message is something you want to be true as that bias can affect people's critical thinking abilities as it probably did mine that summer. Being exposed to a message can also alter people's acceptance of it, this is one of the key principles of propaganda and marketing/branding. Additionally, people's perception of the validity of the message can be affected by their perception of the validity of the source. All of those were probably factors in me putting aside my cynicism and wanting to believe the 100 million quid transfer kitty and Witsel and Mata rumors.

I think this all relates to one of @orly 's points. Not only should there perhaps be some concern that Everton is expressing a desire to exert some influence over the independent sources of club-related information, but there should be even greater concern at the scope of the net they're casting. There's a lot of different representatives on those team sheets that collectively make up a good portion of the media covering the club. Since those members of the independent media are not the club they don't necessarily raise those feelings of distrust some Evertonians associate with Everton's PR/media dept and as a result those Evertonians probably place more trust in information coming from those sources outside of the club, rightly or wrongly believing it to be free of the club's influence.

That's very analytical, what you've said, and I agree. Its interesting that we seem to pay more attention to the sources outside of the club, when they are by obvious logical extension always bound to be less truthful than a source directly from the club. I certainly do that despite the fact it makes no sense whatsoever to do so. That is called confirmation bias, I think. We are all guilty of that sometimes. Especially when so emotionally invested in things.

I think there's a difference between cynicism and critical thought, i think critical thought arrives at conclusions through logic and rationality whereas cynicism just finds faults in conclusions through logic.

E.g.

Story:
Everton to have 100mil budget.

Cynical reaction:

We've been lied to before why should we believe that. I don't believe that for a second.

Critical reaction:

I hope that's the case, would be good if it occurred. I'll believe it when I see it though, given what's happened previously.

 

[leslad]

Timing is everything.

Thanks for all the positive comments in here and not turning it into a name and shame exercise. Loads of really interesting ideas raised by others.

The Ian Ross thing is always one of the most incredible (in all senses of the word) fan 'engagement' activities that I've seen. He posted under the alias 'Ruperts_Tower' on Kipper as well - which was an absolute nest of antiboard sentiment - and he was not only as you'd expect totally on club message, he was pretty vicious to a number of other posters.

It's difficult to describe the approach these days as more subtle; I agree with suggestions that we are all far more aware and jaded by the soft nudging these days, but the 'deniability' and arms length nature of the influence is more competent.

However it is said that we buy newspapers that, rather than tell us the news, reinforce or reaffirm our views on the 'olds'. Marketing feels much the same; we just want to be told how great everything is.

The more validation we get, the more validation we crave. Dopamine innit.

'Economic impact' lol. Jarg jargon. Give us some wins nobheads

 

[Efcjake]

That's very analytical, what you've said, and I agree. Its interesting that we seem to pay more attention to the sources outside of the club, when they are by obvious logical extension always bound to be less truthful than a source directly from the club. I certainly do that despite the fact it makes no sense whatsoever to do so. That is called confirmation bias, I think. We are all guilty of that sometimes. Especially when so emotionally invested in things.

I think there's a difference between cynicism and critical thought, i think critical thought arrives at conclusions through logic and rationality whereas cynicism just finds faults in conclusions through logic.

E.g.

Story:
Everton to have 100mil budget.

Cynical reaction:

We've been lied to before why should we believe that. I don't believe that for a second.

Critical reaction:

I hope that's the case, would be good if it occurred. I'll believe it when I see it though, given what's happened previously.

Well, I think this bit again speaks toward the reputation of the source of the information. We know the club has been caught telling porkies to supporters before and that's why we seek out other sources of information who haven't proven themselves unreliable. A Critical reaction should include that as an observed fact to consider when criticizing the validity of information and the source of the information.

The club has that reputation among some sections of the support and that is precisely why they must attempt exert some influence over the other sources of club-related information, a "singing from the same hymn sheet" move.

 

[zandvoort blue]

@orly
You can't just leave it there, mate, sowing the seeds of suspicion and division amongst us.

Name the names! Flush out the Club Agents! I want to know who has something to declare!? Let us purge ourselves of the tainted!

(Obviously not our resident MoshKoe hater, Dave, bless him. Please let him out of his padded cell btw - this is his zenith and he's missing it. Cruel.)

We should allow a 24 hour amnesty for all club moles to throw themselves on our mercy

 

[chicoazul]

Every Everton twitter “fan account” with over 4,000 followers should be assumed is controlled by the club or a media group masquerading as an independent fan. Particularly if they even try and produce any content. That content is dictated by club or Murdoch himself.

 

[Frang]

Every Everton twitter “fan account” with over 4,000 followers should be assumed is controlled by the club or a media group masquerading as an independent fan. Particularly if they even try and produce any content. That content is dictated by club or Murdoch himself.

You on the limit then bro!

 

[chicoazul]

You on the limit then bro!

I’m a pastie fan mate. Not here for Everton.

 

[Efcjake]

I’m a pastie fan mate. Not here for Everton.

Pyar bitter you never got a call up for the kick about.

 

[chicoazul]

Pyar bitter you never got a call up for the kick about.

I actually did! Bounced it though.

Soz @orly.

 

[Connor]

Every Everton twitter “fan account” with over 4,000 followers should be assumed is controlled by the club or a media group masquerading as an independent fan. Particularly if they even try and produce any content. That content is dictated by club or Murdoch himself.

RIP EAW if so.

However, I do remember there was an account within the last year that was actually masquerading as an independent fan site/blog and got blown up as being something to do with Trinity Mirror.

Big ups to Orly for bringing this to the front for the rest of the world to see.

 

[Kever10]

Good evening mein frandels.

Over the summer, a number of you kind folk, either as hunted Weasels or Weasel Hunters, took part in the Weasel Index. It was a light-hearted, satirical look at the reasonably new industry of the 'In The Know' persons, turbo-charged by the advent of mass social media. With the exception of one misunderstanding beyond the forum, it was generally taken in the manner in which it was intended.

The whole point was - can we trust the Everton-themed information we are receiving? Should we accept it without knowing the "source"'s full motivations? And ultimately, does it really matter?

I'm not going to start naming names again (and I've been asked not to specifically) and this is not by any means an article of accusations. I have no doubt whatsoever that anyone mentioned coincidentally below is first and foremost an Evertonian. But are they a conduit for the club's own social marketing strategy, willingly or unwillingly?



Over the summer, Goodison Park hosed a number of kick-around friendlies. This one linked above was one of the first of the summer; beyond the celebrity boxers and the SportsPesa directors, there are a number of Everton Twitterati names and, rather surprisingly, the (at that time) Everton editor for the Liverpool Echo. Nothing here is itself shocking - a few regulars making up the teams - but the basic question is: would these social media accounts, ostensibly independent of club oversight or editorial, have been invited if they had taken a negative stance in their podcasts, articles and blogging? Once you have a chance to ping it into the back of the Street End net, living that teenage dream of momentous glory that didn't involve Kelly Brook, are you going to do anything to harm the chances of your invite back?

'Kelly, wonderful two minutes there but I must say, dreadful mattress and the wallpaper could do with a fixer-upper in here'

or

'Kelly, 30 seconds of heaven, fantastic coffee by the way, how about next Thursday?'

So does this matter? Do we care whether our Everton mass media (and it is unavoidable, like Fox News, the BBC website and FaceBook - if you're looking for some Everton action you're going to encounter the big Everton beasts that roam the social media safari) is perhaps influenced by the club in a grace and favour manner? How many times after a big defeat or setback was Tim Cahill wheeled out for some positivity? Pointy Phil telling us after selling all our strikers (plus ca change) one summer that it meant the squad was close-knit, together, more chances for a youngster? After a heavy defeat, did we really need to see Tom Davies (socks mercifully under trousers) doing some samba dancing? Do you feel like you are being manipulated and do you care?

My view is that we should at least be wary as we've been here before. Caveat Lector , even in the Wild West days of late 2011. If you read this thread http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=15350.150 and been around for a while, you may remember the infamous Ian Ross (former comms man at the Club) having a chain of emails leaked. At one point, apparently CEO Robert Elstone drew up a list of individuals "who can say good things about us include (and you know these
far better than me)":



I've removed some of the names here, particularly the Supporters Club leaders, good people who even at the time felt they were unfairly seen as patsies. But what is important here is that the Club felt they could lean on these individuals, and that supporter feeling was being manipulated or at least steered in a way that discouraged a fully robust debate. And you can see why; there's a ravenous desire for fresh, to-the-minute transfer and team news, for the hint of stadium progress fresh off the press, that drives people to the big social media figures, and they need that exposure for more listeners, more clicks, more engagement.

Should editorial oversight from the club be declared? Should the Echo have a 'Chinese Wall' *vomits onto self* that means they can say what they like, when they like, and runouts on the hallowed turf be damned?

Sometimes there are no sinister machinations and for your aural pleasure, you can listen to a couple of Everton supporting frandelinos talking about Everton. Try that here https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/listen-grandoldteam-podcast-16-09-17.99008/ .

Great article and I agree with a lot if it. I very rarely trust anything the club, or it's closely associated mouthpieces, as listed, have to say until it is confirmed. Too many instances of being let down in the past, and far more than the 2 times it apparently takes to bring shame on me.

I have no problem with the club having these channels though, or for trying to get a positive message out to the masses. You can choose to believe it or not based on the evidence, but you have to expect a business of that size to at least try to look good to the outside world. Honesty is great and all, but why would any successful business constantly and deliberately point out its flaws when they don't have to, in the interest of being transparent? They have to at least appear to be professional, surely.

I think it's all a different point to the ITK thing though. I'm convinced the majority of that is pure wind up and/or guess work.

The ironic thing about ITK culture for me, is that it has boomed now, when instant news is at everybody's finger tips. If we actually do sign someone, release a kit, etc, the majority of us will know within minutes of it being official, be it by text, twitter, specific apps or forums like this one. Not like in days gone by when you would need to wait for the next mornings newspaper, or sports bulletin on the radio to keep up to date.

Meanwhile, getting the information any earlier from the unnamed source, opens the possibility of failure, and inevitably causes frustration, suspicion, and mistrust. It's all very odd, and a symptom of modern day social media and the bizarre need for followers and z level fame.

The second irony, is that your weasel index, rather than dissuade bullshit, actually seemed to encourage people to have a go themselves, see how many points they could get.

People can be so competitive... And stupid.

 

[degsy]

Mates there are no accusations here, and the core ideas have been discussed on the site in other places. Perhaps it will even get shut down here.

In fact, it might as well not be about Everton at all, but go for all football club related social media, or those sites that looked to all the world like independent club chat but are pump primed by NewsNow and the rest.

The core question is: how important is independence?

'He who sups with the devil needs a long spoon'

and

'There ain't no such thing as a free lunch'

Seems there will always be a degree of taint.
just sayin like

 

[SerenityNigh]

Every Everton twitter “fan account” with over 4,000 followers should be assumed is controlled by the club or a media group masquerading as an independent fan. Particularly if they even try and produce any content. That content is dictated by club or Murdoch himself.

Over 4,000 eh?

 

[chicoazul]

RIP EAW if so.

However, I do remember there was an account within the last year that was actually masquerading as an independent fan site/blog and got blown up as being something to do with Trinity Mirror.

Big ups to Orly for bringing this to the front for the rest of the world to see.

On a serious note as much as I hate to do it, props to @GrandOldTeam and EAW for pulling up this exact account you’re referring to. It was funded by Trinity Mirror but tried to position itself as an independent Everton site. Which is snide, a lot it going on too as the media moguls want to control these sites too.

GOT & EAW pulled them up over it and the account disappeared overnight. Shame as some good content on it but underhand move playing on being independent when it’s part of a wider media strategy.