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Apologise to Southgate

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JimmyJeffers said:
He has a very good tournament record especially considering what went before. Isn’t the greatest manager in the world but I guarantee whoever eventually replaces him doesn’t do any better.
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MikeH72 said:
He’s got a very good tournament record because he’s been fortunate enough to draw bums right through to the latter stages. If the next manager gets similar luck of the draw then it’ll be an interesting discussion.
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The truth sits somewhere between the two imho.

Yes, he's been very fortunate. But JJ has a point - England have not been immune from failure at the hands of bums in recent times.

It was a low bar. The job for the new coach is to go one further than Southgate and find a way to beat the better teams whilst not losing the positives. Which is the behind the scenes stuff on squad harmony and managing pressure.

I think Southgate is probably a good manager in the sense of being a good ops manager. But he's not a tactician or brilliant coach.
 
Daveysgingerlovechild said:
The truth sits somewhere between the two imho.

Yes, he's been very fortunate. But JJ has a point - England have not been immune from failure at the hands of bums in recent times.

It was a low bar. The job for the new coach is to go one further than Southgate and find a way to beat the better teams whilst not losing the positives. Which is the behind the scenes stuff on squad harmony and managing pressure.

I think Southgate is probably a good manager in the sense of being a good ops manager. But he's not a tactician or brilliant coach.
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Strengths
- being best mates with all the players

Weaknesses
- tactical knowledge
- in game management
- team/squad selection (no backup left backs, right backs in midfield etc etc)
- improving players through coaching
- mentality in big games against strong opponents

If there’s any more to add to either column please feel free.
 
MikeH72 said:
Strengths
- being best mates with all the players

Weaknesses
- tactical knowledge
- in game management
- team/squad selection (no backup left backs, right backs in midfield etc etc)
- improving players through coaching
- mentality in big games against strong opponents

If there’s any more to add to either column please feel free.
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Neutral
Fashionable waistcoat
 
MikeH72 said:
Strengths
- being best mates with all the players

Weaknesses
- tactical knowledge
- in game management
- team/squad selection (no backup left backs, right backs in midfield etc etc)
- improving players through coaching
- mentality in big games against strong opponents

If there’s any more to add to either column please feel free.
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Think the strengths column might need revising. Think 'takes jibes about missed penalties and pizza ads well' should be added.
 

MikeH72 said:
Strengths
- being best mates with all the players

Weaknesses
- tactical knowledge
- in game management
- team/squad selection (no backup left backs, right backs in midfield etc etc)
- improving players through coaching
- mentality in big games against strong opponents

If there’s any more to add to either column please feel free.
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Took an unfit and possibly injured striker with zero mobility and started him every game.
Asked Bellingham to play behind said problem striker and play his game. Which was nigh impossible.
A very stubborn manager, relying on his favourites. Shaw was injured, couldn't get match fit in time whilst there. Mania!
Toney got thrown on again in the 88th minute. He should have refused and thrown his shirt at him. Last gasp, final roll of the dice, remaining seconds of the game? Get in the bin and take your waistcoats with you.

Oh oh oh, also, the attitude of the side when it scores is a problem, go ahead and they froze, got an equaliser and they froze. Locking games down is great if you have classic legendary Italian back 5 to rely on - england don't have those types. Bottle job.
 
Alan Whittle said:
Obviously, as a Palace fan, this is what I missed the most.
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I watch enough terrible football during the regular season. I think England have things completely backwards in their pursuit of success. They are completely focussed on the outcome. The chances of winning tournaments are small. The vast majority of the time we won't win. But we can at least always try to play good attacking football used the players in a coherent system which plays to their collective strengths. Let's not players out of position. Let's not play players that are injured or unfit. Let's pick on form rather than reputation. Our preparation for this tournament was shambolic. No left back, TAA in midfield, then Gallagher and finally Mainoo, Foden and Bellingham cancelling each other out, Kane a statue up front, Walker terrible going forward, no in games changes tactically or pre-emptive subs. Terrible dire football. Absolutely no lasting memories created. I have completely contemp for our approach.
 
Daveysgingerlovechild said:
Indeed. Southgate had zero intention of getting on the front foot from the off.

Plus Carragher is blaming the players for freezing and calling for Southgate to stay. Koff Carragher, don't ruin my Graham Potter filled future.
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That might be true if we came into the final on the back of a series of great performances. But we have been dire in pretty much every game.
 

Kevsleftpeg said:
There isn't. There is great shame in not attempting to play football at any stage of the tournament though. Teams with far less resources than us play much better football. They are much braver in possession.
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The biggest frustration for me was less about being gungho or dominating possession, but the lack of urgency or willingness to go through the gears until behind.

It's fine to sit off a little and draw a team out before going at them. Its fine to have the ball and slow the game before stepping it up. But I don't think he had any game plan beyond keeping it tight. No variation in style, pace, or directness.

Edit: I'm referring to the tournament as a whole. In the final they were just out thought and looked disjointed.
 
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Daveysgingerlovechild said:
The biggest frustration for me was less about being gungho or dominating possession, but the lack of urgency or willingness to go through the gears until behind.

It's fine to sit off a little and draw a team out before going at them. Its fine to have the ball and slow the game before stepping it up. But I don't think he had any game plan beyond keeping it tight. No variation in style, pace, or directness.
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I think a lot of players have been below par compared with their league form. Foden, Rice and Walker especially. They're playing in fantasy footy teams most weeks, smashing everyone out of sight, getting every decision under the sun, playing against massively inferior opposition. That they haven't truly dominated one single game says a lot about them, and the manager from a tactical viewpoint.

I think Southgate made a rod for his own back making Kane captain. Kane's lack of pace and energy made sure we were only ever going to play on the front foot for brief periods. He's not capable of pressing opponents for long periods, he can't break quickly, so his continued inclusion was baffling, especially with us playing so deep.

He looked goosed against Italy in 2021. Same old same old, just like shoehorning Gerard in for the 2014 WC.
 
Interesting to see the lads get behind him this week only to get the knives out on the full time whistle.

It’s almost like entitled piss babies going after reflected glory but not being able to handle disappointment.

Two finals a semi and a quarter in his four tournaments. You England fans don’t know you’re born.
 

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