Confirmed Signing Armando Broja

[toffeeblue9]

I find it hard looking at all the Prem teams to see where he would be their out and out 1st choice centre forward.
He & his advisors will know this , he is still very much in the development stage.
So yeah it really does make sense to come here , he'll get plenty of game time whist he's learning i've no doubt about that.

If he's of a mind that he thinks he's done it all & he's not prepared to fight (& learn) for his place in the team then i wouldnt want him here.

Yes I would like to see him here.

You didn't really answer the other part of the argument though.

Let's say that Broja would be happy to come in as competition to DCL (I disagree and there's no way we'd play both of them together regularly, but let's park this bit)

That means we have to spend about £30m on him - assuming those stories are vaguely accurate, do you think we would be spending that sort of money on a player who would be 2nd choice? Given our very finite resources, given our huge needs in other areas, given the scrutiny we've been under, would it really be plausible that we'd spend that sort of money on a player who'd be competition?

 

[greener]

For the ones who watched Broja would he able to play together with Dom ? I mean DCL is good in the box thriving off good service, but doesn't create anything himself or you won't back him in a 1 on 1 with a centre half. Will Broja provide this ? Agree we need a proper back up for Dom but preferably a different profile

I saw him play quite a bit at St Marys last season. Broja played best when a lone striker with a bit of pace next to him, thrives on that. He faded partly to a change of style/formation but also (rumour has it) due to conflict about following instructions.

Lamps may be a better man manager than Hasenhuttl so that could be key, but can't see him playing well with DCL myself. He'll sulk if benched.

 

[blulouie]

You didn't really answer the other part of the argument though.

Let's say that Broja would be happy to come in as competition to DCL (I disagree and there's no way we'd play both of them together regularly, but let's park this bit)

That means we have to spend about £30m on him - assuming those stories are vaguely accurate, do you think we would be spending that sort of money on a player who would be 2nd choice? Given our very finite resources, given our huge needs in other areas, given the scrutiny we've been under, would it really be plausible that we'd spend that sort of money on a player who'd be competition?

I , like you and all of us have no clue about how our finances are playing out at the moment. Maybe the player/s he wants for Centre mid are only available on loan freeing up money for other positions.

There are 5 subs in use next year so the talk of 2nd choice doesnt come into it anymore , players will be rotated game by game .
I shudder to think its not Rondon being the only other option.

It would be a very good & wise move for the lad.

 

[TwoTonTed]

He won't go for less than £30m unless there's a buy-back clause.

 

[Groucho]

I , like you and all of us have no clue about how our finances are playing out at the moment.

If only the pretend accountants and ITKs took this view.

 

[kenada_blue]

It just doesn't work like that though. It's a lot easier to convince people that you're a really good player who deserves a chance if you're being kept out by Mane, Salah, Diaz etc than it is when you're struggling to get in ahead of Rondon, Townsend and the like. It's also difficult to argue with the fact that their unwanted young lads have been considerably better than ours recently. The likes of Wilson and Williams have excelled at Championship level in a way that very few of our lads have, for whatever reason, and Solanke now looks like a £20m player even if it was a poor signing for Bournemouth at the time.

It's not about convincing they're really good though, it's giving them enough to be sellable assets.

Problem we have is we hardly ever send out our notable under 23 players on loan for a full season. Done that for years. We end up not giving them a direction and lose them on a free or next to nothing.

Broja is gonna be £30mill and nowhere near the same pedigree as say Kean was to fork out that kinda money.

I just think that it could be a bit too costly in our situation when we could look to turn a profit in our own academy if we did it with some thought. Which we haven't done

 

[Lanolin]

It's not about convincing they're really good though, it's giving them enough to be sellable assets.

Problem we have is we hardly ever send out our notable under 23 players on loan for a full season. Done that for years. We end up not giving them a direction and lose them on a free or next to nothing.

Broja is gonna be £30mill and nowhere near the same pedigree as say Kean was to fork out that kinda money.

I just think that it could be a bit too costly in our situation when we could look to turn a profit in our own academy if we did it with some thought. Which we haven't done

Of course it's about convincing people they're really good, what else could it be about? Kenny is the perfect example of why just playing someone doesn't magically make them worth £20m. It's not really that complicated, none of our young players have been sold for big money because none of them have been worth big money. You evidently think Simms and Onyango will break that trend, I'd love you to be right but i'd be surprised based on what i've seen.

 

[kenada_blue]

Of course it's about convincing people they're really good, what else could it be about? Kenny is the perfect example of why just playing someone doesn't magically make them worth £20m. It's not really that complicated, none of our young players have been sold for big money because none of them have been worth big money. You evidently think Simms and Onyango will break that trend, I'd love you to be right but i'd be surprised based on what i've seen.

The RS didn't have to try hard convince Sheff United that Brewster was worth £20million after a good 3 months a Swansea (3 games for the RS). He'd not even broken into anywhere near the first team by then. Same with this Broja kid who they want £30mill for.

And I'm not talking £20-30mill for these players, I'm talking exposure, get them out on loan to generate interest in order to sell rather than winding down their contracts.

The thing is that they have a plan, especially Chelsea who stock pulled kids, send them to Holland, and actively look to sell regardless of who's in charge. We never have.

The Kenny and Dowell clearly had interest after their loans but we didn't know what to do with them as we had no structural plan. Dowell ended up getting to his last 12 months of a contract before being sold, Kenny went on a free. Both had firm interest after loans that we pondered after changing managers.

I don't buy the "They get some minutes over Mane so they must be good argument". Jay Spearing played regularly with Gerrard next to him and ended up at Bolton.

 

[ElGato]

Get him in. Carbon copy of Richy (don't start by picking this comparison apart) - could probably play wide or through the middle.

Like the idea of a 3-5-2 with him and DCL up top for a season, although does raise questions as to where young Tony G comes into the equation

 

[kenada_blue]

It is much easier slotting in untested young players in a top side, where they can play with freedom in a team doing well, alongside experienced pro’s who will cover them. That is a platform where young players can shine.

It is difficult putting them in a team fighting at the bottom, already lacking talent and leadership. It makes it so much harder for them, forces them to play safe rather than be brave and can cripple their confidence.

Finished behind Southampton by a point and they had Broja on loan which apparently has perked interest that he's a good player.

Doesn't matter about the league position...in fact I think that some of these younger players would've done more to help us as they'd have no fear. Remember the Fat Waiter throwing in Simms, Gordon, Branthwaite, Dobbin and Onyango as subs for 20mins against Chelsea in a game he wrote off...and ended up being one of the better performances of the season.

 

[windymiller]

Is it just me or do the scab 6 clubs get whopping premiums on their fringe players. £30m for a lad with one OK season at Southampton seems a crazy fee to me, if he was a Southampton player there is no way he would be getting linked at that value and, even if he was, they wouldn't get it. I understand he's young and a decent prospect but there has to be better value from overseas. I really don't want to become to Chelsea what Bournemouth are to the RS.

 

[Nymzee]

Is it just me or do the scab 6 clubs get whopping premiums on their fringe players. £30m for a lad with one OK season at Southampton seems a crazy fee to me, if he was a Southampton player there is no way he would be getting linked at that value and, even if he was, they wouldn't get it. I understand he's young and a decent prospect but there has to be better value from overseas. I really don't want to become to Chelsea what Bournemouth are to the RS.

Fringe players at Top 6 sides are generally better than ours though.

Chelsea's fringe players are Gallagher and Broja. Ours are people like JPG and Jonjoe Kenny.

 

[Shibbywiggles]

Is it just me or do the scab 6 clubs get whopping premiums on their fringe players. £30m for a lad with one OK season at Southampton seems a crazy fee to me, if he was a Southampton player there is no way he would be getting linked at that value and, even if he was, they wouldn't get it. I understand he's young and a decent prospect but there has to be better value from overseas. I really don't want to become to Chelsea what Bournemouth are to the RS.

I think it’s different as Liverpool sold bang average players for huge fees to Bournemouth whereas Chelsea have spent years cherry picking all the best young talent and loaning them all out all over the place so they actually have real quality in their ranks. Problem is Chelsea also have a team that won the champions league only a year ago so whilst the likes of Gallagher look great, they aren’t elite and don’t get ahead of Mount or Kovacic or Kante etc.

 

[Lanolin]

The RS didn't have to try hard convince Sheff United that Brewster was worth £20million after a good 3 months a Swansea (3 games for the RS). He'd not even broken into anywhere near the first team by then. Same with this Broja kid who they want £30mill for.

And I'm not talking £20-30mill for these players, I'm talking exposure, get them out on loan to generate interest in order to sell rather than winding down their contracts.

The thing is that they have a plan, especially Chelsea who stock pulled kids, send them to Holland, and actively look to sell regardless of who's in charge. We never have.

The Kenny and Dowell clearly had interest after their loans but we didn't know what to do with them as we had no structural plan. Dowell ended up getting to his last 12 months of a contract before being sold, Kenny went on a free. Both had firm interest after loans that we pondered after changing managers.

I don't buy the "They get some minutes over Mane so they must be good argument". Jay Spearing played regularly with Gerrard next to him and ended up at Bolton.

I’m not saying they must be good?! I’m saying it’s easier to believe somebody is good when they’re being kept out of a side by good players than it is when they’re not.

Fringe players at Top 6 sides are generally better than ours though.

Chelsea's fringe players are Gallagher and Broja. Ours are people like JPG and Jonjoe Kenny.

Exactly. It’s genuinely staggering that this even needs explaining.

 

[kenada_blue]

I’m not saying they must be good?! I’m saying it’s easier to believe somebody is good when they’re being kept out of a side by good players than it is when they’re not.

Exactly. It’s genuinely staggering that this even needs explaining.

I get that.

But my point is different as I'm not comparing the academy players. I'm saying we're not active with ours. We let ours whittle down their contracts because we have zero structure in place. We barely send them on loan, we don't give them senior game time. That needs to change to even look at making money on them.

Simms - 21. Blackpool and Hearts. 3 months loans. 17 goals. 2 years on his contract. What we doing with him?

Broja - 20. Vitesse and Southampton. Full season loans. 20 goals. 4 year contract left. Chelsea want £30mill.

See the difference? Not comparing the players ability...but more the direction and structure. Chelsea have there's. We don't. Hence a player like Simms will just float on our books rather than us actively either give him game time...or sell him.