Ashamed of the club

[FinchFarmBlue]

Heh.

No doubt a sentiment shared by many who thought the same think about Cahill and Lescott years ago.

"Championship players?"

"We're scraping the bottom of the barrell now...."

Exactly and I would trust Moyes judgement over the majority of other premiership managers. All but a couple of Moyes signings in the last few years have been regular internationals (Arteta being the notable exception).

Whilst Moyes won't expect the fans to be ecstatic about his potential recruits,considering the players linked earlier in the window, I did not have any expectations about the likes of Pienarr,Cahill and Lescott before they arrived.

There are more than a few comments out there at the moment about certain managers signing up players on big contracts,without actually totally believing in their ability to do well. If they don't work out for the club-you end up with players who don't want to leave and quite happy picking up a fat wedge sitting on the bench. (Sunderland outdoing Spurs and the Barcodes this year with 50 1st team players currently listed on their website-according to the Guardian)

Wenger's been criticised just as much as Moyes for not spending this summer (different circumstances granted). Equally Spurs have been taken to task in recent days, that Ramos might not know what he is doing having not strengthened his defence properly yet-a club many use as an example of how we should be spending!!!!.

None of this 'other clubs' stuff really matters to Everton at present, however it may show that even with money some managers may not get it right. Moyes for me every time,even if we are skint

 

[Dylan]

Top post mate

 

[neonleon]

.

yes we are light .... this is a problem that has been on the cards for a while . moyes and co should have seen we were driving down a dead end road months ago.

they have also taken a lot of time to sort it out and havent made much ground.

which brings us to this summer.
your asking for quality players , but im sure 'any' club who needs 6 or 7 players would struggle with cash.

its a balancing act for moyes quantity vs quality.

the 'unknown' players he is after on freebies are all international's (they could be bad , they could be good - win win situation- classic moyes)

if he gets 4 loans in ,then we pretty much still have suposedly millions left.
which could mean 2x 10 million players or 1 big big player.

in a few days time we could be looking back over evertons worst summer and kenwright and co's demise.

or it could even be eclipsed by 7 days of pure moyes brilliance.
6/7 international players for 20 million approx.

for his next trick he will fit 5 elephants into a chang bottle.

top post fella.

I think Moyesie is doing the right thing - getting the number is on loans, or free signings.

then hopefully using what cash is there for one or two potential world class signings.

Remember this; everton always struggle to bring in players.

But not having endless amounts of cash, and a swing door transfer happy policy Moyes uses to his advantage.

Our squad is more tightly knit than others, we have a siege mentality, the character of the club is defined in a smaller amount of long term players - we don't have what Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle and Portsmouth all have - fifteen players in every season and another fifteen out - most of the players don't recognise each other at these clubs.

A smaller squad means Moyes can coach them in a more hands on way; and we can focus on winning games and improving the players rather than spending money on players in the belief that's all that's required to get to the top.

We are everton fans and shouldn't be ashamed of the club (can be ashamed at the state of the finances and how its being run, but not the club) - spurs and [Poor language removed] fans spend a fortune every season and think they'll win the league because x from barcelona has just signed. Spurs have a carling cup to show for the 200 million they've spent in the last six years.

Moyes at the end of this will have unearthed one or two gems. I'm sure a couple of them wont make it, but it wont cost us much.

And if that big signing/s comes through we'll have another to go with a list that includes, arteta, cahill, yakubu, lescott, howard, neville, pienaar etc.

IMWT.

 

[FinchFarmBlue]

top post fella.

I think Moyesie is doing the right thing - getting the number is on loans, or free signings.

then hopefully using what cash is there for one or two potential world class signings.

Remember this; everton always struggle to bring in players.

But not having endless amounts of cash, and a swing door transfer happy policy Moyes uses to his advantage.

Our squad is more tightly knit than others, we have a siege mentality, the character of the club is defined in a smaller amount of long term players - we don't have what Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle and Portsmouth all have - fifteen players in every season and another fifteen out - most of the players don't recognise each other at these clubs.

A smaller squad means Moyes can coach them in a more hands on way; and we can focus on winning games and improving the players rather than spending money on players in the belief that's all that's required to get to the top.

We are everton fans and shouldn't be ashamed of the club (can be ashamed at the state of the finances and how its being run, but not the club) - spurs and [Poor language removed] fans spend a fortune every season and think they'll win the league because x from barcelona has just signed. Spurs have a carling cup to show for the 200 million they've spent in the last six years.

Moyes at the end of this will have unearthed one or two gems. I'm sure a couple of them wont make it, but it wont cost us much.

And if that big signing/s comes through we'll have another to go with a list that includes, arteta, cahill, yakubu, lescott, howard, neville, pienaar etc.

IMWT.

Another great read and thanks for your Dylan too

COYB

 

[davek]

.

yes we are light .... this is a problem that has been on the cards for a while . moyes and co should have seen we were driving down a dead end road months ago.

they have also taken a lot of time to sort it out and havent made much ground.

which brings us to this summer.
your asking for quality players , but im sure 'any' club who needs 6 or 7 players would struggle with cash.

its a balancing act for moyes quantity vs quality.

the 'unknown' players he is after on freebies are all international's (they could be bad , they could be good - win win situation- classic moyes)

if he gets 4 loans in ,then we pretty much still have suposedly millions left.
which could mean 2x 10 million players or 1 big big player.

in a few days time we could be looking back over evertons worst summer and kenwright and co's demise.

or it could even be eclipsed by 7 days of pure moyes brilliance.
6/7 international players for 20 million approx.

for his next trick he will fit 5 elephants into a chang bottle.

But we're in a position that we need 6/7 players because we shed Carsley, Fernandes and Johnson in this transfer window....from an already small squad!

Everyone keeps talking up these loan proposed deals like they are a solution, but these type of signings just defer the problems we have until next summer when we have to [Poor language removed] or get off the pot in terms of contracts. It's inherently unstable to bring in your maximum four loan deals in any one window....it's something the likes of West Brom or some other promoted club might logically do in order to protect themselves from later financial problems on relegation. We are an established top 6 side though.

I'd love to think loan signings will be accompanied by deals for quality players on long term contracts...but that type of player will take the sort of cash I suspect we all feel by now we dont have, and it'll take time to hammer out such deals...something else we dont have.

 

[neonleon]

other thing i wanted to say. Because we struggle to bring the players in, when they do come to our club - they really want to come here!

we dont end up with mercenaries (vdm perhaps aside). Players under moyes methods really play for the shirt not the cash. And it shows on the pitch.

(which is why in retrospect its a good thing that rooney went, 'cos he wanted to play for money).

sure by the time the season ends, we'll have found three proper gems. along with some squad players.

 

[FinchFarmBlue]

But we're in a position that we need 6/7 players because we shed Carsley, Fernandes and Johnson in this transfer window....from an already small squad!

Everyone keeps talking up these loan proposed deals like they are a solution, but these type of signings just defer the problems we have until next summer when we have to [Poor language removed] or get off the pot in terms of contracts. It's inherently unstable to bring in your maximum four loan deals in any one window....it's something the likes of West Brom or some other promoted club might logically do in order to protect themselves from later financial problems on relegation. We are an established top 6 side though.

I'd love to think loan signings will be accompanied by deals for quality players on long term contracts...but that type of player will take the sort of cash I suspect we all feel by now we dont have, and it'll take time to hammer out such deals...something else we dont have.

You are far from wrong to have that assessment Dave and I see exactly where you are coming from. Signing players on long term deals is exactly the model Everton have been using though. Yes they initially made some loan signings-Arteta,Howard etc-but the key is they were made into permanent deals-something your West Broms (no disrespect intended) may not be able to do. If it was all short term loans being talked about-I would be very suspicious-however majority of our loans have been loan to buys with an agreed fee at the start of the loan.

 

[neonleon]

Everyone keeps talking up these loan proposed deals like they are a solution, but these type of signings just defer the problems we have until next summer when we have to [Poor language removed] or get off the pot in terms of contracts. It's inherently unstable to bring in your maximum four loan deals in any one window....it's something the likes of West Brom or some other promoted club might logically do in order to protect themselves from later financial problems on relegation. We are an established top 6 side though.

Arteta, Howard, Pienaar all came via this route. We finalised the deals after they proved themselves. Rather than spending millions on players unproven in the premiership, moyes wisely used the cash to evaluate their performances over the year.

Gravesen and fernandes were brought in, and neither did enough to get permanent deals. fernandes wasn;t the player who was on loan the season before. gravesens knees are [Poor language removed]. we could just've waved 15 million at the pair and we'd not even be able to bid for anyone.

a club with limited resources should always use the loan system. besides you can see if a player wants to earn his contract or just get paid to kick a ball around occasionally.

 

[coyney]

Arteta, Howard, Pienaar all came via this route. We finalised the deals after they proved themselves. Rather than spending millions on players unproven in the premiership, moyes wisely used the cash to evaluate their performances over the year.

Gravesen and fernandes were brought in, and neither did enough to get permanent deals. fernandes wasn;t the player who was on loan the season before. gravesens knees are [Poor language removed]. we could just've waved 15 million at the pair and we'd not even be able to bid for anyone.

a club with limited resources should always use the loan system. besides you can see if a player wants to earn his contract or just get paid to kick a ball around occasionally.

Sorry mate but if you recall we sent Arteta back and it was as a second thought he was brought whether we had some one lined up or not and it fell through I dont know as for Fernandes I cant agree I would love him to sign as he would have done first time round if Kenwright had not taken so long to finalise a deal as it seems ever deal we enter takes forever hence here we are again battling time to gt players before the deadline

 

[chicoazul]

yeah, lets all show our scorn towards the club, boo anything that moves and get rogan in to setup a fans fund with some plaudits from some no-mark in parliament.

moyes once spoke of 'managing expectation' - maybe he is finally realising it is his own expectations that need curbing in terms of what he can expect from fans.

nothing but miracles moyesie laaa, get conjuring or get walking. the fans way or the highway.

JESUS !

Exactly pal. Its unfashionable to be pro club these days.

 

[davek]

You are far from wrong to have that assessment Dave and I see exactly where you are coming from. Signing players on long term deals is exactly the model Everton have been using though. Yes they initially made some loan signings-Arteta,Howard etc-but the key is they were made into permanent deals-something your West Broms (no disrespect intended) may not be able to do. If it was all short term loans being talked about-I would be very suspicious-however majority of our loans have been loan to buys with an agreed fee at the start of the loan.

But for every Arteta, Howard and Pienaar, there's a Fernandes, Ferrari and Gardner. It's a hit and miss affair: try it and see how it works out. It's good in some respects as you can offload signings that dont work out and sign up the successes (although obviously that hasn't been the case with Fernandes). But you pursue that policy because it's a necessity not a virtue. We wouldn't be dealing in the transfer market in this way ideally.

 

[neonleon]

Sorry mate but if you recall we sent Arteta back and it was as a second thought he was brought whether we had some one lined up or not and it fell through I dont know as for Fernandes I cant agree I would love him to sign as he would have done first time round if Kenwright had not taken so long to finalise a deal as it seems ever deal we enter takes forever hence here we are again battling time to gt players before the deadline

dont remember us sending him back as much as there were big problems getting him to sign a contract. the fee with his club was a formality as it was agreed in the loan deal but arteta wanted fiscal compensation because of special tax exemption rules in the basque region that he wouldnt be eligible to in england.

Moyes at the time played hardball over his wage demands, as did arteta.

cant remember us ever "sending him back" although he did go back himself - or even dropping negotiations. but thats how my memory serves me, ive been wrong before.

seems a lot of fans want their cake and to eat it too. we are a skint club in comparison to many. we should play hardball over wages.

some fans seem to think we should pay over the odds for players, never use loan deals, let players set their own fanciful wage demands, smash our wage structure, pay agents fanciful money.

we have to bargain, get money off players, use loan deals, sign bosmans etc.

its part of the game. no point pretending we are chelsea and money isn't an object.

 

[coyney]

Exactly pal. Its unfashionable to be pro club these days.

Chico in 50 years of going to games this is only the second time that I have been rally pissed by the running the other was Johnson.I can accept that players given the chance to play in the CL would opt for that and that the majority of players will follow the cash nothing wrong in that would you change jobs for less cash?.Its the lack of any co-ordination we spend ages negotiating loan only to find at the end the other club never said they where interested in a loan deal,then we go and make public our interest in a guy who states his heart is at Liverpool this could and should have been avoided and then we go go in with a loan offer as opposed to another clubs firm £10 million offer to add to that the guys father considers us a racist club so what where our chances .I am not blaming the club for the racist smear thats the morons that think its clever to chant obscenities at players

 

[neonleon]

Sorry mate but if you recall we sent Arteta back and it was as a second thought he was brought whether we had some one lined up or not and it fell through I dont know as for Fernandes I cant agree I would love him to sign as he would have done first time round if Kenwright had not taken so long to finalise a deal as it seems ever deal we enter takes forever hence here we are again battling time to gt players before the deadline

dont remember us sending him back as much as there were big problems getting him to sign a contract. the fee with his club was a formality as it was agreed in the loan deal but arteta wanted fiscal compensation because of special tax exemption rules in the basque region that he wouldnt be eligible to in england.

Moyes at the time played hardball over his wage demands, as did arteta.

cant remember us ever "sending him back" although he did go back himself - or even dropping negotiations. but thats how my memory serves me, ive been wrong before.

seems a lot of fans want their cake and to eat it too. we are a skint club in comparison to many. we should play hardball over wages.

some fans seem to think we should pay over the odds for players, never use loan deals, let players set their own fanciful wage demands, smash our wage structure, pay agents fanciful money.

we have to bargain, get money off players, use loan deals, sign bosmans etc.

its part of the game. no point pretending we are chelsea and money isn't an object.

Fernandes, who moyes had the privilege of coaching every day, did enough in his first stint for moyes to buy him. but then we got gazumped by valencia paying stupid money for him. I thank our lucky stars we didn't pay 12million for him. I'm sure Valencia wish they didn't.

When they loaned him back, he wasn't the same player for whatever reason. Looked lazy to me, although some say he wasn't fit - but why for a whole half a season? Too many question marks - sure we could've bought him this off season for 4 - 6 million but he didn't try hard enough IMO.

another mercenary avoided. another bullet dodged.

 

[chicoazul]

What he said, coyney mate.

Theres no denying that we're [Poor language removed] at transfers; Im not of the opinion that its Kenwright - Moyes has stated that theres money available for a while now. I really dont get what our fans get riled about, Kenwright has always provided the money for the manager. Sure, we're not rich like some of the others but do we really want a Thaksin type owner?

It just seems that Kenwright is the agreed easy target to over react on for all of life troubles, he's not a bad egg.