2024/25 Beto

[billyblue80]

He'd outscore DCL if given his minutes. No question.

I tend to agree his hold up play wouldn't be as good mind you. But I do think he would improve with a run. I mean he still might not make it in this league because he is very raw but I don't think we have seen enough or played to his strengths so far. Dyche isolates the striker and plays a ten who can't really control a ball or lay one on himself

 

[formerly manx toffee]

I tend to agree his hold up play wouldn't be as good mind you. But I do think he would improve with a run. I mean he still might not make it in this league because he is very raw but I don't think we have seen enough or played to his strength so far.

Can’t play to our style. Big lump up top to a forward to hold it up and wait for reinforcements. Cant play for Dyche

 

[bluestevon]

Can’t play to our style. Big lump up top to a forward to hold it up and wait for reinforcements. Cant play for Dyche

If any takeover goes through Dyche will be gone instantly.

 

[Evertonthat]

Or look at it this way, we have a CF whose strength is running in behind onto through balls, we had e signed two guys who like playing off the front man in a three, we play neither there and stick them out wide and lump it up to the CF.

A bad manager is one who doesn't adapt to the players he has, Dyche doesn't adadapt

We have the players there, but like you say, it's the limitations of the manager that's preventing us from getting the best out our attack.

Imagine if we had a proactive manager who changed and adapted the teams style and tactics depending on the team, or who we are playing. Thomas Frank does this. He litterally never plays his sides the same way week after week, it's constantly adapting depending on who they are playing. Dyche is the polar opposite. I'd even say Dyche isn't even reactive, as he rarely changes the team at all during a game, and when he does it's a predictable like for like. We must be so easy to play against for a team with a proactive manager.

 

[bluestevon]

We have the players there, but like you say, it's the limitations of the manager that's preventing us from getting the best out our attack.

Imagine if we had a proactive manager who changed and adapted the teams style and tactics depending on the team, or who we are playing. Thomas Frank does this. He litterally never plays his sides the same way week after week, it's constantly adapting depending on who they are playing. Dyche is the polar opposite. I'd date say Dyche isn't even reactive, as he rarely changes the team at all during a game, and when he does it's a predictable like for like. We must be so easy to play against for a team with a proactive manager.

I'm pretty sure if Textor takes us over he'd go straight after Glasner mate. Would be a breath of fresh air if he did.

 

[RufusCat]

Beto is not and never will be, a successful Prem League striker. No amount of “giving him time” will change that. Whoever bought him, no matter how good the financial deal, should ever buy another player.

Give him time this season and he may eventually, just about get the hang of the offside law.

Judgement made after about 10 starts, all of which he was expected to do a job he is not suited to ie playing with his back to goal. Needs to be given opportunities suited to his skills - running onto forward passes etc before judgement can properly be made.

 

[JimmyK]

Or look at it this way, we have a CF whose strength is running in behind onto through balls, we had e signed two guys who like playing off the front man in a three, we play neither there and stick them out wide and lump it up to the CF.

A bad manager is one who doesn't adapt to the players he has, Dyche doesn't adapt

You’re not totally wrong but there’s a bit more to it than that even when we’ve had managers who do try to football that way we’ve struggled to create those chances because we don’t have good enough to play the passes. I think Beto is very poor in most aspects of his game but he does make some decent runs but I wouldn’t fancy most of our players to pick them out regularly whoever was managing them.

 

[bluestevon]

You’re not totally wrong but there’s a bit more to it than that even when we’ve had managers who do try to football that way we’ve struggled to create those chances because we don’t have good enough to play the passes. I think Beto is very poor in most aspects of his game but he does make some decent runs but I wouldn’t fancy most of our players to pick them out regularly whoever was managing them.

Think on part because we've had so many grock managers that it's become ingrained in some, plus a semi core of technically crap players who always got picked.

Doucoure - cannot play in a high tempo system requiring technique, because he has none and doesn't have any awareness whatsoever.

McNeil - can't - not because he doesn't have technical ability but because he's so one footed that it hamstrings his ability to play at any decent tempo, he kills any attempt we try to do anything fast.

Coleman, love him.but he's never been good technically - hence so many errors over the years when he gets caught in possession etc, young can't anymore as he can't move. Keane - just a donkey.

Throw on top training focused on not hd ING the ball and doing the work rate out of possession so we don't seem to train movement with the ball as players are also likely goosed from winning it back. Why we see so many times a CM looking around to who to play it to with no movement around them (gueye caught in possession last game was caused by that)

That happens a few times and players start to get nervous and go back or hoof it.

We've had so few managers who you can describe as wanting that type of footy over the past 30 years.

Even Ancelloti - I wouldn't describe as a technical manager, more a manager whose sides can appear technical as he has some if the worlds best players normally in them.

Martinez to his credit did have us playing that way, but it was undermined by his inability to remotely balance it with a solid foundation defensively.

Maybe Silva? But I always felt he was never given a chance and players didn't seem to want to get on board with his ideas.

Also any manager under Moshiri has been hamstring by an insane recruitment system which just threw players together with zero thought out plan.

 

[maccavennie]

Think on part because we've had so many grock managers that it's become ingrained in some, plus a semi core of technically crap players who always got picked.

Doucoure - cannot play in a high tempo system requiring technique, because he has none and doesn't have any awareness whatsoever.

McNeil - can't - not because he doesn't have technical ability but because he's so one footed that it hamstrings his ability to play at any decent tempo, he kills any attempt we try to do anything fast.

Coleman, love him.but he's never been good technically - hence so many errors over the years when he gets caught in possession etc, young can't anymore as he can't move. Keane - just a donkey.

Throw on top training focused on not hd ING the ball and doing the work rate out of possession so we don't seem to train movement with the ball as players are also likely goosed from winning it back. Why we see so many times a CM looking around to who to play it to with no movement around them (gueye caught in possession last game was caused by that)

That happens a few times and players start to get nervous and go back or hoof it.

We've had so few managers who you can describe as wanting that type of footy over the past 30 years.

Even Ancelloti - I wouldn't describe as a technical manager, more a manager whose sides can appear technical as he has some if the worlds best players normally in them.

Martinez to his credit did have us playing that way, but it was undermined by his inability to remotely balance it with a solid foundation defensively.

Maybe Silva? But I always felt he was never given a chance and players didn't seem to want to get on board with his ideas.

Also any manager under Moshiri has been hamstring by an insane recruitment system which just threw players together with zero thought out plan.

Training for me leaves a lot to be desired. Small sided games only work if you have technical players who play close.to each other in real sided games.

So when Everton put a training ground video out, ot looks like the players are busy, technically very good and confident on the ball. Comes to a real game situation, 2 midfielders will be 15/20yds apart and there's no cover, no conviction on the pass and it ends up to either centre half to kick it long.

Dyche isnt a coach, Stone is a cone layer and Woan is a yes man which is disappointing because he's from a family of Evertonians.

The minute you set up with Mcneil, Harrison and Doucore, you know exactly what your going to get...football with minimum quality or creativity and the hope is to score from a set piece.

 

[bluestevon]

Training for me leaves a lot to be desired. Small sided games only work if you have technical players who play close.to each other in real sided games.

So when Everton put a training ground video out, ot looks like the players are busy, technically very good and confident on the ball. Comes to a real game situation, 2 midfielders will be 15/20yds apart and there's no cover, no conviction on the pass and it ends up to either centre half to kick it long.

Dyche isnt a coach, Stone is a cone layer and Woan is a yes man which is disappointing because he's from a family of Evertonians.

The minute you set up with Mcneil, Harrison and Doucore, you know exactly what your going to get...football with minimum quality or creativity and the hope is to score from a set piece.

Agree almost entirely mate, I would say though Harrison is actually a good technical player who under Bielsa played completely different as he had movement and options, think here you are seeing the worst of him due to how Dyche sets us up.

I always think those training ground videos show the entirety of our technical training btw, one 10 min 5 a side half pitch game per week...

Rest of the time it's fitness work etc.

 

[bluestevon]

Training for me leaves a lot to be desired. Small sided games only work if you have technical players who play close.to each other in real sided games.

So when Everton put a training ground video out, ot looks like the players are busy, technically very good and confident on the ball. Comes to a real game situation, 2 midfielders will be 15/20yds apart and there's no cover, no conviction on the pass and it ends up to either centre half to kick it long.

Dyche isnt a coach, Stone is a cone layer and Woan is a yes man which is disappointing because he's from a family of Evertonians.

The minute you set up with Mcneil, Harrison and Doucore, you know exactly what your going to get...football with minimum quality or creativity and the hope is to score from a set piece.

Makes me think of the 80s team, yes we had done very good technical players in there, Bracewell, Steven, Sheeds, but a lot weren't as well - Reid was decent nothing more, same for Pat and Stephens. What they did do though was move for each other, can't ever remember seeing Reid looking around with no options etc or Nev having to luno it long as no one was showing fir the ball.

That's all about coaching, practise and then the conviction to carry that into the real games and stick with it.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I'm pretty sure if Textor takes us over he'd go straight after Glasner mate. Would be a breath of fresh air if he did.

I cant help think Glasners attacking style will get found out soon in the prem - maybe wrong of course

 

[OneTrueLegend]

It was nice to see Beto getting a run out, getting 2 goals and an assist, all coming in the last 10 minutes as well, proving his "true fitness". I think Beto clearly has strengths that we dont play to, he can run in behind defenders. I think he looks a little more robust as well, you can see for his assist he stood up to a few challenges, whereas last season he probably would have gone down, because in Europe, you would get free kick, but in the UK, its more 50:50 if the ref gives you a foul or not.

 

[arch stanton]

Makes me think of the 80s team, yes we had done very good technical players in there, Bracewell, Steven, Sheeds, but a lot weren't as well - Reid was decent nothing more, same for Pat and Stephens. What they did do though was move for each other, can't ever remember seeing Reid looking around with no options etc or Nev having to luno it long as no one was showing fir the ball.

That's all about coaching, practise and then the conviction to carry that into the real games and stick with it.

I think time has coloured your view on Peter Reid my friend, he was much better than decent. He was 4th in the equivalent Ballon D'or in 1985, yu dont get that by being a clogger who come good.

That said, your point remains, we dont give ourselves easy options when playing out, that is schoolboy stuff these days

 

[Tony’s Carp]

It was nice to see Beto getting a run out, getting 2 goals and an assist, all coming in the last 10 minutes as well, proving his "true fitness". I think Beto clearly has strengths that we dont play to, he can run in behind defenders. I think he looks a little more robust as well, you can see for his assist he stood up to a few challenges, whereas last season he probably would have gone down, because in Europe, you would get free kick, but in the UK, its more 50:50 if the ref gives you a foul or not.

With the obvious caveat that it was only Tranmere last night surely illustrated the benefit of giving Beto 90 minutes as opposed to 20, one big thing he brings is simply being an absolute physical handful to cope with and likely to grind defenders down over a full game to achieve late success like he did last night.

We know he is technically limited but his size, speed and strength would’ve been a massive part of why he was brought in, maybe to capitalise on that you need to let him bully defenders into submission over a whole game.