Big Friedkin Rebuild

[PeregrineT]

This summer will truly be the last of the dead weight. The books will be almost entirely cleared of the horrible purchases of years past, and we can reset the salary books. With even average recruitment going forward our player finances will be much better.

The only players is trying and keep are Gueye, and Mangala for the right price.

 

[Efcjake]

The idea that nobody would be interested in Doucoure is another Debbie Downer dismissal. He still has utility operating at the top end of the professional game. If we don't sell him in January, it's more because we want to keep him rather than him being unwanted and valueless. Doucoure still has his suitors.

Beto and Doucoure have both been linked with moves to Roma in the last month. Whilst I'm not stating these moves will definitely happen, absolutely nobody will be surprised to see TFG take advantage of the fact that they own two football clubs.

I believe that the January transfer window provides us with a good opportunity to strengthen. I don't believe that we are in such a bad way that strengthening is an impossibility, or that we cannot even benefit from selling to buy.

What on earth have you been smoking friend?

 

[PeregrineT]

Is next year the start of the new PSR regime that is based on turnover not losses or has that been shelved?

Yes it is, though clubs could have even used it this season as a transition year.

 

[windymiller]

Yes it is, though clubs could have even used it this season as a transition year.

Does this give us more wiggle room or is it essentially more of the same?

 

[Zatara]

Spending £200m, we’d fail PSR by a mile, even if we sold every first team player first. Even with our new infinite money tree, it will take a few seasons to be allowed to spend that much. Possibly 2 if JB wakes up and we pull someone’s trousers down, and we get some corking sponsorship deals.

It’s going to be a long road back. But we will finally be facing in the right direction.

To spend £200mil we'd need to generate £40mil a season over 5 seasons. Not exactly impossible.

If you get 15 million for Beto, you still need to write off the 15 million left on his transfer fee. It's a wash, you'd really only be saving on his salary which would effectively been taken by his replacement.

You're on the right track, but if we haven't fully amortized the players' original fee, that will be written off when the sale is made. It's part of the reason why it's beneficial to loan a player out rather than sell, if you still need to write down his original fee.

Pickford and Branthwaite are really the two big value players we have that we will get real, investable money from. Next to that, you're looking at academy players who will bring the biggest bang for the buck. I'm not advocating selling someone like Harrison Armstrong, but if you could get 10 million from him, theoretically you'd have 50 million to spend based on that fee.

But without the sale we'd have to meet that liability by some other means. The sale means that the 15 million earmarked for the purchase of Beto is sorted, allowing us to make use of the money that would have been required without the sale.

Is it the same as Football Manager? Obviously not. But I can't accept that Everton can no longer benefit from the age old strategy of sell to buy, or that selling a couple of players for 20 million 'makes no difference'.

You would meet the 15 million liability over the next three years, not all at once. Which is the difference. Once you sell an asset, you need to write off the remaining 15 million all in the same accounting period.

Yes so if he's sold for 15 and you expense 15, that's zero.

@pfim i dont think this is quite correct.

If you look at the Iroegbunam / Dobbin example them as both were homegrown, what you are stating would be correct (zero on the books).

However, this isnt a mortgage on a house which needs paying off with sale proceeds.

If 2 teams each sign a different player for £25mil on a 5 year contract, then after 3 years both decide to sell their players to each other for £15mil...

...how do you think this would look in PSR?

I am not sure like but doesn't the expense still carry on as a per year fees over the length of contract we gave him. Like if we sold for £15m that would show on the books regardless for the current year but we are still paying off yearly. Say £15m in and straight on our profit books but still say £5m out for next few years. So £10 on our profit but -£5m the next year or so. A bit like selling Dobbin to get £10m in our profit section and signing Tim for £9m that will be split in expenditure over his contract???? This is more of a question and not a statement

Neither were a PSR book value on their clubs books -- a better example would be mine above -- to determine values of pre-purchased players in an exact circumstance.

If you sell him, you expense the remainder of the fee. You can't amortize something you don't own or have under contract.

Remember, this isnt the same as any accounting principles, PSR rules work differently when it comes to buying / selling.

Theyre actually benefitting the seller in almost every situation so it would seem peculiar if the numbers were a "wash" / breakeven with zero benefit to sell.

If that was the case then it removes any benefit of selling at book value -- illogical.

We won't get 'decent' cash for Doucoure; I'd imagine the only suitors in January would be those looking to pick him up for £2m/£3m simply because his contract is expiring.

I remain hopeful that someone stumps up £5m or so to take DCL in January.

Players like Doucoure / Keane / DCL will be zero from a PSR standpoint.

For discussion purposes, lets say we received £10mil for the lot. In isolation that allows us to pay the first year of a £50mil deal.

Every little helps

 

[pfim]

@pfim i dont think this is quite correct.

If you look at the Iroegbunam / Dobbin example them as both were homegrown, what you are stating would be correct (zero on the books).

However, this isnt a mortgage on a house which needs paying off with sale proceeds.

If 2 teams each sign a different player for £25mil on a 5 year contract, then after 3 years both decide to sell their players to each other for £15mil...

...how do you think this would look in PSR?



Remember, this isnt the same as any accounting principles, PSR rules work differently when it comes to buying / selling.

Theyre actually benefitting the seller in almost every situation so it would seem peculiar if the numbers were a "wash" / breakeven with zero benefit to sell.

If that was the case then it removes any benefit of selling at book value -- illogical.

Year 1: 5 million amortization charge
Year 2: 5 million amortization charge
Year 3: 5 million amortization charge
Year 4: 15 million revenue, 10 million amortization w/o, 3 million amortization charge on the new player.

The player we are mentioning, though, has only been amortized for two years (or less if sold next month).

I don't know why it would be illogical to have no benefit to sell at book value? If you own something for 10 million and sell it for 10 million, there is no gain? Maybe I'm not understanding you.

 

[Rooney_Tunes]

Provided Dyche keeps us in the Premier League, the summer of 2025 promises to be a huge rebuilding process for the new owners.

We have the following 10 players out of contract in the summer:

Doucoure £120k
Calvert-Lewin £100k
Keane £80k
Gueye £80k
Holgate £70k
Coleman £55k
Maupay £50k
Young £40k
Begovic £9k
Virginia £8k
TOTAL: £612k / week
(All salaries are approximate and averaged out from various sources across the web; please don’t take as gospel)

We also have 4 players returning to their parent clubs at the end of their loans:

Broja
Harrison
Lindstrøm
Mangala

That’s a huge turnover of 14 players, but also provides some much needed finance for a rebuild.

Based on the above, we will only have the following 12 senior players:

Pickford
Patterson
Mykolenko
Tarkowski
Branthwaite
O’Brien
Iroegbunam
Garner
McNeil
Ndiaye
Beto
Chermiti

Priority signings would then have to be:
• Starting RB
• Starting LB
• Starting CM
• Starting RW
• Starting CF

We’d also need a backup goalkeeper, whilst perhaps looking to promote Armstrong and a couple of youth team players to the first team squad.

Personally, I don’t feel that Patterson, Mykolenko, Beto are good enough, but could serve as backup until January / Summer 2026, otherwise it would leave us too much to do in one summer.

Discussion:
1. How much of the above (if any) do you think we will be able to get done this coming January?
2. Do we keep any of the contract expiry players (maybe on a 1-year extension on reduced terms)?
3. Do we turn any of the loan players into permanent signings?
4. Are there any other starting eleven positions that I’ve missed from the priority signings?

So, there will be money for this rebuild?

 

[davep]

When the cash changes hands doesn't matter with PSR.

Wasn't when the cash changed hands the exact reason for the Richarlison and Gordon sales, and the Dobbin/Tim I swap? Got money in before the deadline in the first two cases, and instant money in v money spread across x years in the latter?

 

[pfim]

Wasn't when the cash changed hands the exact reason for the Richarlison and Gordon sales, and the Dobbin/Tim I swap? Got money in before the deadline in the first two cases, and instant money in v money spread across x years in the latter?

The timing of the accounting transactions yes. When cash actually changes hands, no.

 

[davep]

The timing of the accounting transactions yes. When cash actually changes hands, no.

Well tbf surely we'ra talking about when the transactions take place, not when the actual money changes hands? Otherwise none of the sales we made fro PSR purposes would make any sense?

 

[Jamiednm]

Noing are look we sign half of the man citie skwad and a point guardeola as manager and we end up getting relegayted to the champianchip now he has bean fownd out in the premyership

 

[Zatara]

Year 1: 5 million amortization charge
Year 2: 5 million amortization charge
Year 3: 5 million amortization charge
Year 4: 15 million revenue, 10 million amortization w/o, 3 million amortization charge on the new player.

The player we are mentioning, though, has only been amortized for two years (or less if sold next month).

I don't know why it would be illogical to have no benefit to sell at book value? If you own something for 10 million and sell it for 10 million, there is no gain? Maybe I'm not understanding you.

So that would mean (using your earlier examples):

Year 1: £5mil
Year 2: £5mil
£15mil sale / £15mil amortised = 0.
Year 3; New signing £15mil, 5 year contract

= 1 player sold 0. 1 player signed negative £3mil on PSR.

So, the rules are there for certain reasons but the upside is in place for selling clubs and to encourage an active market. Sell players and benefit from the capital being on the books day 1 while purchases are spread across contracts for PSR -- no matter when payments are made.

In the above example, it would mean that clubs simply buying and selling at market value would always be negative on PSR. It isnt a typical accounting setup like othet businesses due to PSR rules not being based upon payment dates/amounts -- theyre standardised on paper.

So I dont believe it can be correct or else every single club doing business at book value would be in a loss situation with PSR.

 

[Nicodemus49]

I think the bigger question is, who becomes the new boo boys?? Myko is a dead cert, but who else? We need to start planning this soon.

We can't just start getting on their backs in summer. I propose we start blaming Garner, McNeil and Myko from Jan.

Maybe throw Broja into the mix. Seriously what did he do in that 17 minutes against Arsenal ???

 

[T LEAFE]

Problem is any new decent players are going to cost more than £120,000 per week and we still won't be able to afford many.
So we will be down to the bare bones and the kids. And if Branthy or Pickers leave....

 

[Preki]

Provided Dyche keeps us in the Premier League, the summer of 2025 promises to be a huge rebuilding process for the new owners.

We have the following 10 players out of contract in the summer:

Doucoure £120k
Calvert-Lewin £100k
Keane £80k
Gueye £80k
Holgate £70k
Coleman £55k
Maupay £50k
Young £40k
Begovic £9k
Virginia £8k
TOTAL: £612k / week
(All salaries are approximate and averaged out from various sources across the web; please don’t take as gospel)

We also have 4 players returning to their parent clubs at the end of their loans:

Broja
Harrison
Lindstrøm
Mangala

That’s a huge turnover of 14 players, but also provides some much needed finance for a rebuild.

Based on the above, we will only have the following 12 senior players:

Pickford
Patterson
Mykolenko
Tarkowski
Branthwaite
O’Brien
Iroegbunam
Garner
McNeil
Ndiaye
Beto
Chermiti

Priority signings would then have to be:
• Starting RB
• Starting LB
• Starting CM
• Starting RW
• Starting CF

We’d also need a backup goalkeeper, whilst perhaps looking to promote Armstrong and a couple of youth team players to the first team squad.

Personally, I don’t feel that Patterson, Mykolenko, Beto are good enough, but could serve as backup until January / Summer 2026, otherwise it would leave us too much to do in one summer.

Discussion:
1. How much of the above (if any) do you think we will be able to get done this coming January?
2. Do we keep any of the contract expiry players (maybe on a 1-year extension on reduced terms)?
3. Do we turn any of the loan players into permanent signings?
4. Are there any other starting eleven positions that I’ve missed from the priority signings?

I couldn't get past Doucore getting 120 grand a week.