2019/20 Bill Kenwright

[The binman chronicles]

Are Leeds really that big of a club? They are a club with the potential to be big in terms of support but they have probably spent over half of my life outside the top flight (I'm in my 40s)

Being a big club is a very fluid thing anyway. I mean Chelsea are a big club now, its not a recent thing they have been up there for about 20 years now. I do find that a lot of people judging big clubs seems to be based on where they were in the league table when you were growing up.

Different meanings can be attributed to big clubs, historic clubs and the actual top clubs now.

Imho Sunderland are a big/historic club due to the size of the fan base, the large stadium, a good portion of the time spent in the top division and the ye olden trophies they won back in the day. They can't be considered a top club though. Newcastle could be lumped under this banner too.

They are both nowhere near us though if you compare everything overall. League titles being key. Also remembering we had the better stadium for most of our history, those who are only 20 something wouldn't have a clue about this though.

Leeds/Forest etc. are similar although have at least won trophies in the last 40 years. If not as successful overall or have the stadiums of the Sun/New. Forest did win 2 European cups but looking across their history it is definitely a flash in the pan and they won the league at the right time (see Villa below). Nowhere near top club level now.

Villa are a club you could match us against in terms of trophies, size and stature of stadiums. But we have had much the better of it in recent years and they have to do a lot of catching up to get back on our level as a top current destination.

Chelsea are lucky to have had the sustained success since 97 else they wouldn't hold a candle to us prior. Spurs are a top club, could also be considered a big/historic club too but they're only ahead of us due to being the CL for the last 10 years and now having the best stadium in the country, they have won diddly squat recently and two league titles in 137 years...

The problem is although we haven't fallen away like the other big/historic clubs we have done little to keep us relevant apart from hanging around close to the cooler and more popular kids. We need to win something again to at least take away the fact that an array of much lesser clubs have won a trophy since 1995. Or at least get into the CL proper consistently over the next few years. If we don't we will get viewed more and more alike to Sunderland by the general public, maybe not yo-yo up and down the divisions bad but still an irrelevance that past glories do not matter or at least count a lot less than what you do now.

For that Kenwright has to take a large proportion of blame as he has been involved in some shape or form from about 97, 2 years after we won something and we are still waiting 23 years later.

 

[degsy]

You’re clueless. He borrowed the money to buy us and I very much doubt that he made much profit at all given all the shenanigans and refinancing.

Alegedlly - the club accounts could be read to show that as Bills borrowings went up and those repayments kept being repaid. Then the Club debt went up pro rata.
A lot of accountancy is (stands by for howls of anguish from accountants) robbing peter to pay paul and still having money left over for both of them to be able to pay you a fee for doing so, while charging all such costs to the taxman and getting credits for it.
A lot can be hidden under £24M or whatevers worth of 'other operating costs' and other such vague sundries that appear every year in the accounts.
Or you can believe that Bill mortgaged his house to the tooth fairy

 

[Khalekan]

Are Leeds really that big of a club? They are a club with the potential to be big in terms of support but they have probably spent over half of my life outside the top flight (I'm in my 40s)

Being a big club is a very fluid thing anyway. I mean Chelsea are a big club now, its not a recent thing they have been up there for about 20 years now. I do find that a lot of people judging big clubs seems to be based on where they were in the league table when you were growing up.

No, not really.

They came up in the early to mid sixties and were major players for about a decade.

They declined as a club after that and were relegated circa 1982.

They came back up for a about a decade,during which time they won the Title but by 2002 they were broke and relegation followed.

They have never came back up and in fact were relegated to the third tier at one stage.

So no, IMO Leeds are not “really that big of a club”.

 

[degsy]

No, not really.

They came up in the early to mid sixties and were major players for about a decade.

They declined as a club after that and were relegated circa 1982.

They came back up for a about a decade,during which time they won the Title but by 2002 they were broke and relegation followed.

They have never came back up and in fact were relegated to the third tier at one stage.

So no, IMO Leeds are not “really that big of a club”.

Like barcodes the just think they are.
They did nothing before Revie flattered to deceive and went bankrupt chasing the CL.
The barcodes last won the league the year before Dixie scored his 60.

 

[Tel001]

Speaking of intellect, it's 'lack'

Bill clearly loves the club, but it was also abundantly clear that he loved owning the club even more.

He practically asset stripped to keep his grubby little hands on his toy, safe in the knowledge that the happy clappers would back his decisions. He treated those who questioned him with utter contempt, and often repeated support of the minority.

Off the top of my head.

Raised cash by selling Bellfield to construct a new state of the art training complex, only to immediately sell that back to the council who since sold it on and we pay rent.

Rejected an offer of cash investment from Paul and Anita Greg to cover the pitiful 30 million we needed to front up for Kings Dock, as it would have meant they had more say. If he didn't trust them, just say so. Don't make up some Russian with 'an encyclopedic knowledge of football' who is going to invest instead. He then produces the mystery Russians front man at an AGM and claimed he was a diehard Evertonian. Questions from the floor led to him being asked who scored the 66 final goals. Revealed as a fraud, unlucky Bill. Oh, the Russian money never materialised, the 'Fortress Sports Fund' was his smoke and mirrors to explain away why he rejected the Greg offer.

The above episode actually led to him cancelling AGM's for many years, claiming it was because of bad behaviour. (our head of comms at the time, I forget his name was more forthcoming by describing us as "Drunken Knobhead Evertonians") (I now remember - Ian Ross and his pretty frocks) It wasn't bad behaviour, it was because Bill had been embarrassed and revealed as a fraud infront of who he assumed were his adoring family. The absolute arrogance of the man.

"Myself and David both agree that Wayne is now a 50m player." Why even say it? You know you were broke and you were going to sell.

The Kirkby debacle, the lies told to try and scaremonger fans to vote with an absolute disgrace. All orchestrated by Bill and his cronies. Kirkby would have KILLED Everton. Oh well, Bill would have been in charge so that's ok.

"watch this space"

I'm sure others can add more. You're welcome to counter.

Merry Christmas.

NTL money being released and spent only for NTL to go broke and money never received .

Trevor birch

Not signing a first team player for two years

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

For that Kenwright has to take a large proportion of blame as he has been involved in some shape or form from about 97, 2 years after we won something and we are still waiting 23 years later

Mmmm, new stadia is a constant theme in those clubs who are ahead of us at the cooler, Kenwright wanted us out of Goodison long before it became trendy, I also remember Blue Union running vitriolic campaign against any move away from Goodison.
Kenwright has wanted us out of Goodison for years. His belief was to sustain the long term success as others, a new stadium is needed to capitalise on intial success, or else we would be a flash in the pan, Leeds Blackburn take a bow.

Blue Union 2009...

 

[The binman chronicles]

Mmmm, new stadia is a constant theme in those clubs who are ahead of us at the cooler, Kenwright wanted us out of Goodison long before it became trendy, I also remember Blue Union running vitriolic campaign against any move away from Goodison.
Kenwright has wanted us out of Goodison for years. His belief was to sustain the long term success as others, a new stadium is needed to capitalise on intial success, or else we would be a flash in the pan, Leeds Blackburn take a bow.

Blue Union 2009...
View attachment 75669

Well I don't know if Kenwright could be classed as wanting a move before it was 'trendy'. Middlesborough and Sunderland kickstarted it off with the flat pack stadium moves in the mid-nineties. Johnson released visions of his own around 96.

Kenwright's Kings Dock fiasco was 2001-03 and remember he was the one that blocked it as he wanted to keep his hands on the train set. Gregg would have ploughed in the money needed to secure our side of it and at that point if Bill really loved us he would have walked to move us on. Just because he has been involved in this one that looks like it will work shouldn't exonerate him of the fact we could have been in a 55k stadium 15 or so years earlier for less than a fifth of what we are going to be paying now. All that investment that could have come our way, City's owners would have definitely bought us over them with that in place.

I don't mind Bill, I think he does love the club but he is all about 'me' and that overrides what is best for the club. I understand he wants to be chairman when Everton wins something as it the closest to being a player/manager and he wants his name etched into Goodison folklore but let's not kid ourselves that he was our ultimate saviour, his decisions have constantly put the club on the back foot.

 

[mahermi1]

Mmmm, new stadia is a constant theme in those clubs who are ahead of us at the cooler, Kenwright wanted us out of Goodison long before it became trendy, I also remember Blue Union running vitriolic campaign against any move away from Goodison.
Kenwright has wanted us out of Goodison for years. His belief was to sustain the long term success as others, a new stadium is needed to capitalise on intial success, or else we would be a flash in the pan, Leeds Blackburn take a bow.

Blue Union 2009...
View attachment 75669

You say the blue union led a vitriolic campaign against us moving stadia ? Don't remember that one at all. Did you mean KEIOC By any chance ? They led a the campaign to keep us out of a flat pack stadium in Kirkby, that would have given the whole city of Liverpool to lfc. Think them plans you refer to were off a guy on Toffeeweb, they were an alternative to the multitude of lies leading to the Kirbydome, remember Goodison would soon lose its safety certificate, by guess who, we are still here .Anyway don't let the facts get in the way of a good story mate.

 

[BNJ1878]

I don't think Kenwright had much to do with it.
His best idea was Moyes

Only it wasn't his idea.

His original plan was Gary Megson.

The departed Walter Smith basically told him not to be a tit. That's when Moyes came into the picture.

 

[Steve Wigan]

Think the only way we were getting sold with Bill owning us, is if Bill was kept on in some echelon of power, like chairman, this has been proved. He only ever wanted investment throughout his ownership, someone else to fund his club, even you have to admit that Steve.

It was Moshiris choice to keep Bill on board,for a while at least....Moshiri could have easily said to Bill that there would be no purchase without a complete turnover of the board,but Moshiri valued Bills knowlege and experience, and kept him on...nothing wrong with that. It is almost time for Bill to relinquish the remainder of his shares, then he will be made non executive president or something similar. Absolutely nothing wrong in that either. The usual suspects with an agenda exaggerate Bills importance at Everton these days, he is basically a consultant to Moshiri,and Mosh no doubt finds him useful. Even if Bill stays on the board, Moshs influence and representation on the board will increase so if Bill disagreed with any of Moshs decisions, his voice would hardly be heard.

 

[blueblue]

It was Moshiris choice to keep Bill on board,for a while at least....Moshiri could have easily said to Bill that there would be no purchase without a complete turnover of the board,but Moshiri valued Bills knowlege and experience, and kept him on...nothing wrong with that. It is almost time for Bill to relinquish the remainder of his shares, then he will be made non executive president or something similar. Absolutely nothing wrong in that either. The usual suspects with an agenda exaggerate Bills importance at Everton these days, he is basically a consultant to Moshiri,and Mosh no doubt finds him useful. Even if Bill stays on the board, Moshs influence and representation on the board will increase so if Bill disagreed with any of Moshs decisions, his voice would hardly be heard.

Even when he eventually leaves the club Steve there will be some on here who will blame him for anything that goes wrong.

 

[mahermi1]

It was Moshiris choice to keep Bill on board,for a while at least....Moshiri could have easily said to Bill that there would be no purchase without a complete turnover of the board,but Moshiri valued Bills knowlege and experience, and kept him on...nothing wrong with that. It is almost time for Bill to relinquish the remainder of his shares, then he will be made non executive president or something similar. Absolutely nothing wrong in that either. The usual suspects with an agenda exaggerate Bills importance at Everton these days, he is basically a consultant to Moshiri,and Mosh no doubt finds him useful. Even if Bill stays on the board, Moshs influence and representation on the board will increase so if Bill disagreed with any of Moshs decisions, his voice would hardly be heard.

Yes I totally agree, especially in your case Steve, the usual suspect with an agenda, totally exaggerates Bill's importance, in your case God like to Evertons cause. That about sums it up really, to be honest there is no point having a conversation with you about Bill Kenwright because in your eyes, he has never done or will ever do anything wrong in his life. Dont think hes the anti Christ or anything like that btw, but he kept hold of Everton far too long in my view, to Evertons detriment.

 

[blue62]

Alegedlly - the club accounts could be read to show that as Bills borrowings went up and those repayments kept being repaid. Then the Club debt went up pro rata.
A lot of accountancy is (stands by for howls of anguish from accountants) robbing peter to pay paul and still having money left over for both of them to be able to pay you a fee for doing so, while charging all such costs to the taxman and getting credits for it.
A lot can be hidden under £24M or whatevers worth of 'other operating costs' and other such vague sundries that appear every year in the accounts.
Or you can believe that Bill mortgaged his house to the tooth fairy

The problem with all of this is it's pure conjecture, based on a very limited knowledge of how corporate finance works, but it doesn't stop people making spurious allegations. There's plenty of stuff to nail Bill on, most of it with some basis in fact, but bleeding Everton dry is not one of them. He took a loan, it will have been secured, with that there's a high element of personal risk. If you think the accounts can be massaged to divert loan repayments back to Bill or his creditors then you're grossly mistaken, while there's always some room for manipulation, anything on this scale would be caught by auditors and the HMRC and if you think £24m is a lot of money in this context then once again, you're grossly mistaken.

I know for an absolute FACT that Johnson used a stalking horse to bump up the price that Kenwright had to pay for Johnson's shares, it went way beyond their worth or his means and whatever you may think of Bill, he took a major personal gamble to spare us from any more of Johnson and for that alone deserves some credit and our thanks.

 

[degsy]

The problem with all of this is it's pure conjecture, based on a very limited knowledge of how corporate finance works, but it doesn't stop people making spurious allegations. There's plenty of stuff to nail Bill on, most of it with some basis in fact, but bleeding Everton dry is not one of them. He took a loan, it will have been secured, with that there's a high element of personal risk. If you think the accounts can be massaged to divert loan repayments back to Bill or his creditors then you're grossly mistaken, while there's always some room for manipulation, anything on this scale would be caught by auditors and the HMRC and if you think £24m is a lot of money in this context then once again, you're grossly mistaken.

I know for an absolute FACT that Johnson used a stalking horse to bump up the price that Kenwright had to pay for Johnson's shares, it went way beyond their worth or his means and whatever you may think of Bill, he took a major personal gamble to spare us from any more of Johnson and for that alone deserves some credit and our thanks.

I never claimed he 'bled Everton dry', in fact for many years, as far as I know he one of the few in the PL who never took a penny in 'fees'...but he's hardly put any in either.
Its 20yrs on now, (I wasnt even on the Internet 20yrs ago) where would I look now to see sources to refresh my memory about this 'major gamble' just what was it, and how major was it?

 

[degsy]

NTL money being released and spent only for NTL to go broke and money never received .

Trevor Birch

Not signing a first team player for two years

....In 2002, he left Ernst & Young to become Chief Executive of Chelsea, where he led the £180 million sale to Roman Abramovich in 2003.[4] After the sale, Birch chose not to stay at the club and in October that year was appointed Chief Executive of Leeds United, overseeing the takeover by a local consortium. He then moved to Everton in June 2004 to become Chief Executive.
Birch was given the task of overhauling the Merseyside club's finances,

but resigned after a disagreement over strategy with the board and major shareholders - wasn't Bill the major snareholder?