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Carbon neutral lettuce eating

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chrismpw said:
Its the mindset that irritates me. How well received would it be if vegetarians and vegans were invited to only eat meat based foods while at a match, just to sample it.
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It's about climate change though, isn't it? They don't seem to be making a judgement on the merits of eating meat (or not), just trying to reduce the carbon footprint of the game by not offering it at the ground. I'm not vegetarian but have eaten lentil burgers and stuff, and they're tasty. Don't see the problem.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
It's about climate change though, isn't it? They don't seem to be making a judgement on the merits of eating meat (or not), just trying to reduce the carbon footprint of the game by not offering it at the ground. I'm not vegetarian but have eaten lentil burgers and stuff, and they're tasty. Don't see the problem.
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My wife is a veggie and I enjoy veggie food - its the constant droning of the politicised ones I can't abide.

I just read an article in the grauniad intending to scare, stating that 14% of carbon (sic) emissions is down to meat and dairy husbandry.

It raises the question - where can we also make savings in the other 86%? Inevitably we can reduce waste through consumerism tat, needless transport, needless air travel etc. Rather than focussing solely on a means of feeding the humans on the planet.

I know meat is a less efficient use of land than vegetables, but dont buy into the propaganda that meat is as bad as made out. I doubt these campaigners include details of the environmental impact of their qorn etc processing and other reliance on palm oil, its transport across the planet and associated environmental impacts into their calculations.
 
chrismpw said:
My wife is a veggie and I enjoy veggie food - its the constant droning of the politicised ones I can't abide.

I just read an article in the grauniad intending to scare, stating that 14% of carbon (sic) emissions is down to meat and dairy husbandry.

It raises the question - where can we also make savings in the other 86%? Inevitably we can reduce waste through consumerism tat, needless transport, needless air travel etc. Rather than focussing solely on a means of feeding the humans on the planet.

I know meat is a less efficient use of land than vegetables, but dont buy into the propaganda that meat is as bad as made out. I doubt these campaigners include details of the environmental impact of their qorn etc processing and other reliance on palm oil, its transport across the planet and associated environmental impacts into their calculations.
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It's right though. Agriculture is the worst polluting industry in the world in terms of its carbon footprint. What's more, it also consumes around 30% of all freshwater consumption in the world. Meat is far and away the worst offender for that. For instance, it takes around 15,000 litres of water to produce 1kg of beef. That's not to say that crops aren't impactful and it's particularly bad how fuel crops are helping to flatten vast quantities of the Amazon, but even there, around 5,000sqm of the Amazon is being cleared each year for cattle farming, with agriculture as a whole said to be responsible for 80% of all deforestation.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
It's right though. Agriculture is the worst polluting industry in the world in terms of its carbon footprint. What's more, it also consumes around 30% of all freshwater consumption in the world. Meat is far and away the worst offender for that. For instance, it takes around 15,000 litres of water to produce 1kg of beef. That's not to say that crops aren't impactful and it's particularly bad how fuel crops are helping to flatten vast quantities of the Amazon, but even there, around 5,000sqm of the Amazon is being cleared each year for cattle farming, with agriculture as a whole said to be responsible for 80% of all deforestation.
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Shipping causes the most. And I'm fairly sure it's by a large margin.
 

Bruce Wayne said:
It's right though. Agriculture is the worst polluting industry in the world in terms of its carbon footprint. What's more, it also consumes around 30% of all freshwater consumption in the world. Meat is far and away the worst offender for that. For instance, it takes around 15,000 litres of water to produce 1kg of beef. That's not to say that crops aren't impactful and it's particularly bad how fuel crops are helping to flatten vast quantities of the Amazon, but even there, around 5,000sqm of the Amazon is being cleared each year for cattle farming, with agriculture as a whole said to be responsible for 80% of all deforestation.
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Yet look at all the set aside farmland around the uk - land owners being handed subsidies to leave land fallow and do nothing, while elsewhere in the world that environmental vandalism (so the US can have CHEAP meat) is happening.

150 000 litres per kg of beef - how is that stat arrived at? Is it all purified drinking water, does it include water sprayed from rivers for irrigation? Its not as if here in the uk that water is an issue very much of the time, but people still get hung up about it and use it as a weapon fir the veggie campaign. If it were an issue then we wouldn't make water so clean and pure and then use it to flush our toilets!

Humans are mixed up and stupid, they misrepresent and misunderstand data and statistics and some of them deliberately use stats to mislead others (and themselves) - but not just when it comes to eating meat.
 
chrismpw said:
Yet look at all the set aside farmland around the uk - land owners being handed subsidies to leave land fallow and do nothing, while elsewhere in the world that environmental vandalism (so the US can have CHEAP meat) is happening.

150 000 litres per kg of beef - how is that stat arrived at? Is it all purified drinking water, does it include water sprayed from rivers for irrigation? Its not as if here in the uk that water is an issue very much of the time, but people still get hung up about it and use it as a weapon fir the veggie campaign. If it were an issue then we wouldn't make water so clean and pure and then use it to flush our toilets!

Humans are mixed up and stupid, they misrepresent and misunderstand data and statistics and some of them deliberately use stats to mislead others (and themselves) - but not just when it comes to eating meat.
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According to the World Wildlife Fund, around 1.1 billion people suffer from water shortages, with around double that suffering from shortages for at least one month in the year. Agriculture is the biggest consumer of freshwater (by some distance).


Football clubs are no source of moral virtue in any way, but trying to claim meat has no environmental impact is a strange hill to die on.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
According to the World Wildlife Fund, around 1.1 billion people suffer from water shortages, with around double that suffering from shortages for at least one month in the year. Agriculture is the biggest consumer of freshwater (by some distance).


Football clubs are no source of moral virtue in any way, but trying to claim meat has no environmental impact is a strange hill to die on.
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Thats not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that in many developed countries water is not an issue - big settlements purposely evolved around water. To imply that agriculture using lots of water is a bad thing is misleading. Context is important, therefore using lots of water in a desert to grow grass for dairy cattle would be a bad use of water - do you know of say arid countries that do this? (I wouldn't be surprised if Qatar burn oil to produce fresh water to do this!)
 

chrismpw said:
Thats not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that in many developed countries water is not an issue - big settlements purposely evolved around water. To imply that agriculture using lots of water is a bad thing is misleading. Context is important, therefore using lots of water in a desert to grow grass for dairy cattle would be a bad use of water - do you know of say arid countries that do this? (I wouldn't be surprised if Qatar burn oil to produce fresh water to do this!)
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You have all this knowledge yet you call anyone attempting decency "virtue signalling" why? The whole rule of the environment success is that one person can make a difference. Whats your problem?
 
PaddyJames said:
You have all this knowledge yet you call anyone attempting decency "virtue signalling" why? The whole rule of the environment success is that one person can make a difference. Whats your problem?
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My problem is that I've been banging this drum to deaf ears for forty years. Back then moderation would have sufficed. Suddenly, once governments, consumerist zdvertising and big businesses that are largely responsible for causing this mess realised ithat the environment can be used as a cynical selling point or justification to raise taxes. They weaponise it. People lap it up, hand over their cash, make countless token sacrifices (like this) while still pursuing their high energy, high carbon (sic) lifestyles with dishwashers, air conditioners, jet Holidays, SUVs, wanting and getting fruit delivered from the other side of the planet out of season , using a car to 'nip down the road' . They leave no end of gadgets, tvs, chargers plugged in on standby.

Why do they do it? Its not that they're evil, its that they're too damned blind to see the damage they do, or they're too selfish.

This gesture is insignificant in the scheme of things - its just there for the sake of club image. Its a cynical appeal to people's conscience as much as churches appeal to peoples sense of fear and it pisses me off. And do you know the worst thing? I genuinely think that we're too late to make a difference. The climate is going to change to the point where it can't support the out of sight web of interconnected life that supports our population. With warming shutting off the North Atlantic drift we face a very real prospect of plunging densely populated areas into an ice age that will make many countries uninhabitable. THEN people will have to start moving en-mass across borders to stay alive, THEN the shooting will start, THEN humans will probably bring the end of the planet as we know it. I hope every day that I'm wrong, I really do - but the signs ain't good.

40 years ago it was getting too late. Be arsed with the self-righteous bell-whiffery of big businesses using the environment to look good now. Just fry up a steak - after all, global meat and dairy production isn't responsible for 86% of the global CO2 output (its even less significant if you factor in natural emissions such as volcanism by the way) and enjoy the inevitable ride to the end.

Since you asked like :Blink:
 
Yid4life said:
I will be driving to the station, overground to London, overground to WHL and then the reverse. Chicken and chips or Jerk Chicken depending on the route taken and a couple of pints.

I could walk it but it would take 21 hours. In each direction.
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At least you're not taking the jet like last time and laying off the foie gras. It's progress!
 

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