2019/20 Carlo Ancelotti

[Disgruntledgoat]

I hate modern football fans, myself included. We have so many sources of information that essentially tell us nothing... we try to read the tea leaves every week on the form, personalities and intentions of people we've never met in the hope of guessing right for some cred on the internet. We are over emotional idiots.

What we saw today, in my uninformed opinion, is the disease that Ancelotti was brought in to cure. He has been in the employ of Everton for less than 2 weeks and in that time has watched 1 game and managed 4. There is not enough time to meaningfully alter training methods or detailed systems of play on those turnarounds. We are not seeing Carlo Ancelotti's Everton yet.

As to people who say hes only managed top clubs.... what was he supposed to do? Turn them down to tick some boxes on the off chance Everton came calling 15 years later? Hes an absolutely top manager, his record and the testimony of a litany of legends of the game speaks to that.

In short, today was garbage on stilts but that is the challenge in front of Ancelotti et al, not his creation.

 

[billyblue80]

Our mentality is a losers one and has been for years. Which is why I knew we'd lose today if we didn't take our chances first half. We are weak and lack leaders and it's ok against the bad team's but against the top teams it's fully exposed and why we never beat these team's. Carlo has a huge job on to change it, there's an acceptance of defeat that runs throughout the club.

 

[Deleted member 38674]

You got a like in another thread and had to go and spoil it here.

You know he's had training sessions with the players because there's been videos of it. You know he's saying they've barely had any sessions and that's what he means.

He's had to go slowly with them and not push them too much and he's even said it (not overloading them with too much information).

Let's not knock him too much 6 hours into a job and say it's "classic Carlo"

I didn't say he hadn't had training sessions. Someone else did.

I was just commenting on that comment. It doesn't change the rest of my comment.

 

[dannyboy]

Huge reality check for everyone who thought this was as simple as getting a new manager. Make no mistake, this is the most difficult job of Ancelotti´s career. I hope he´s up for a fight and even if he gives it his all he still might fail. That´s how difficult it´s going to be rid this squad of all the dross and replace it with quality. There´s no room for mistake.

 

[Deleted member 38674]

What we saw today, in my uninformed opinion, is the disease that Ancelotti was brought in to cure. He has been in the employ of Everton for less than 2 weeks and in that time has watched 1 game and managed 4. There is not enough time to meaningfully alter training methods or detailed systems of play on those turnarounds. We are not seeing Carlo Ancelotti's Everton yet.

Arteta completely changed Arsenal's style within 2 games. And Ancelotti has already made changes to our system, they just haven't worked.

I'm not advocating his sacking for gods sake, but the guy isn't immune from criticism either.

Agree with the last sentence.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Not if you take them together, which sensible people do. This whole argument reminds me of the top 6 argument last season, until we beat most of them at home and people stopped saying it was a mentality problem (for a while).

Oh yeah last season. When we where awful all year until we finally showed up after hitting rock bottom and being humiliated away at Millwall and fluked wins at home but where still garbage on the road though. Plus got knocked out of the league cup at home to Southampton.

That's something else the losers who play for us always do. After hitting rock bottom they always try harder for a few weeks before settling back into the grove of mediocrity.

Yeah us beating Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal at home after being knocked out of both cups and having nothing other then 8th place to play for sure proved that we don't have a losers mentality alright......

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Arteta completely changed Arsenal's style within 2 games. And Ancelotti has already made changes to our system, they just haven't worked.

I'm not advocating his sacking for gods sake, but the guy isn't immune from criticism either.

Agree with the last sentence.

And in that time they beat United, got beat off Chelsea and drew with Bournemouth. But honestly, it doesn't matter because 3 games is not a decent sample size. Especially over the Christmas period. Nobody was moaning about his style against Burnley or Newcastle... it's a mentality issue amongst his playing staff (in my opinion). Because I cant believe any manager sends their team out to play fearful, negative football.

 

[nsno-chris]

Arteta completely changed Arsenal's style within 2 games. And Ancelotti has already made changes to our system, they just haven't worked.

I'm not advocating his sacking for gods sake, but the guy isn't immune from criticism either.

Agree with the last sentence.

no he never, they got the new manager bounce

 

[blulouie]

When is the meeting ?

First words from Carlo "sign these cheques please "

What for ? They say.

2 Centre mids
A goalscoring winger
A playmaker
And 2 Centre Halfs please

Oh and a boss slotter up front to finish these chances we keep missing.

Sorry must dash got make a silk purse from the pigs ear ive been left with.

 

[Deleted member 38674]

And in that time they beat United, got beat off Chelsea and drew with Bournemouth. But honestly, it doesn't matter because 3 games is not a decent sample size. Especially over the Christmas period. Nobody was moaning about his style against Burnley or Newcastle... it's a mentality issue amongst his playing staff (in my opinion). Because I cant believe any manager sends their team out to play fearful, negative football.

We were desperate for wins. We still are, in truth. It was entirely substance over style at that point.

The wins against Burnley and Newcastle weren't great performances, they weren't even the pragmatic, controlled performances you'd associate with Italian Football.

My point is, Arteta was able to implement a noticeable style change very quickly. Other managers in the past have been able to implement swift changes to playing style. The results take their time, but there has, at least been a positive impact on work ethic and tempo - which is essentially all the 'new manager bounce' is.

I've seen a difference in how we play, I can see that Carlo has made changes, but I can't see that the players have bought into him unconditionally, I can't see that there has been that positive impact on work ethic and tempo - and that's what we lost on today.

Not quality or tactics. Klopp didn't 'out-think' him. We lost to a fantastic piece of quality but we were chasing shadows throughout the 2nd half, in truth. Their kids, out-fought our 1st team. That is the surprise for me.

 

[Deleted member 38674]

no he never, they got the new manager bounce

You don't think Arsenal played differently under Emery vs under Arteta?

If you care to re-watch their matches against Bournemouth and Chelsea, even though they lost. They played well and they played differently. Their shape, their tempo was completely different. And the Arsenal fans were commenting on it, well before they beat United the other day.

 

[PDAWG]

You got a like in another thread and had to go and spoil it here.

You know he's had training sessions with the players because there's been videos of it. You know he's saying they've barely had any sessions and that's what he means.

He's had to go slowly with them and not push them too much and he's even said it (not overloading them with too much information).

Let's not knock him too much 6 hours into a job and say it's "classic Carlo"

Are they the videos and pictures after the Arsenal game and before the Burnley game

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

We were desperate for wins. We still are, in truth. It was entirely substance over style at that point.

The wins against Burnley and Newcastle weren't great performances, they weren't even the pragmatic, controlled performances you'd associate with Italian Football.

My point is, Arteta was able to implement a noticeable style change very quickly. Other managers in the past have been able to implement swift changes to playing style. The results take their time, but there has, at least been a positive impact on work ethic and tempo - which is essentially all the 'new manager bounce' is.

I've seen a difference in how we play, I can see that Carlo has made changes, but I can't see that the players have bought into him unconditionally, I can't see that there has been that positive impact on work ethic and tempo - and that's what we lost on today.

Not quality or tactics. Klopp didn't 'out-think' him. We lost to a fantastic piece of quality but we were chasing shadows throughout the 2nd half, in truth. Their kids, out-fought our 1st team. That is the surprise for me.

See the penultimate sentence of my post

 

[PDAWG]

We were desperate for wins. We still are, in truth. It was entirely substance over style at that point.

The wins against Burnley and Newcastle weren't great performances, they weren't even the pragmatic, controlled performances you'd associate with Italian Football.

My point is, Arteta was able to implement a noticeable style change very quickly. Other managers in the past have been able to implement swift changes to playing style. The results take their time, but there has, at least been a positive impact on work ethic and tempo - which is essentially all the 'new manager bounce' is.

I've seen a difference in how we play, I can see that Carlo has made changes, but I can't see that the players have bought into him unconditionally, I can't see that there has been that positive impact on work ethic and tempo - and that's what we lost on today.

Not quality or tactics. Klopp didn't 'out-think' him. We lost to a fantastic piece of quality but we were chasing shadows throughout the 2nd half, in truth. Their kids, out-fought our 1st team. That is the surprise for me.

Then you don't know much about football then

Anybody worth a meg could see that side would out battle and out run our starting 11

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

You got a like in another thread and had to go and spoil it here.

You know he's had training sessions with the players because there's been videos of it. You know he's saying they've barely had any sessions and that's what he means.

He's had to go slowly with them and not push them too much and he's even said it (not overloading them with too much information).

Let's not knock him too much 6 hours into a job and say it's "classic Carlo"

You're not going to murder the players in training when you're on 3 day turnarounds with a thin squad. Thus, his scope for wholesale changes is a little reduced.