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2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

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I'm not sure if its Everton being frustratingly average or just the current world situation we find ourselves in but it all feels a bit nouty in here recently.

One of the joys of using a forum (rather than something like Twitter) is it gives the opportunity to debate certain points, put across your own perspective or critically analyse the opinions of others.

We seem to be entering an environment where if one persons view differs from another, they are instantly castigated and placed into a neat little box on one side of the fence or the other.

Making a critical point about Carlo Ancelotti doesn't mean you want him sacked, just as making a positive point doesn't mean you're delighted with the current form/playing style - these are all just opinions, and we should be able to discuss the pros and cons of them in a constructive, meaningful way.

My personal opinion on Carlo is - I really like the man, I think he 'understands' Everton and I am proud to call him our manager. I was delighted when we appointed him and still very much want him to be our manager. That isn't to say that i'm not a little disappointed with the way our season has gone, I find some of his substitutions/team selections baffling and I really wish we had a semblance of style to our play.

I tend to think that it's merely a case of 'right man, wrong time'. If Carlo would have been appointed when Koeman was (a.k.a on the eve of a the biggest spending spree the club has ever seen) - I firmly believe that we'd be playing in the CL right now. Unfortunately, we appointed Carlo at a time when the squad was overloaded with non-athletic, non-motivated players and the purse strings had been tightened. Unless we see a massive upsurge in the amount we spend this summer, it will possibly be a struggle for Carlo next season too. In hindsight, in a perfect world we would have appointed a manager capable of motivating and improving average players into something better than previously shown - Unfortunately, I don't think Carlo is that manager.

When we appointed Brands, I seem to remember conversations (or maybe just a general overarching idea) that he would mould and formulate a particular playing style and personality throughout the club. This would essentially mean that managers were less important than the club, as the players would be purchased with a particular style in mind - and the managers would be almost interchangeable. Has this idea just been completely binned off?
 
ToffeeTim said:
You're maybe taking this from social media mainly though? There are only a very small handful of posters on GOT who want the manager out. There are always going to a few and that's fine. But I'd say well over 90% support the manager so it's just not true to say the support is toxic. The results this season show how much we need the Goodison crowd.

The Scheniderlein thing isn't really relevant either. There's not likely to be any correlation between someone booing Schneiderlein and wanting Ancelotti sacked. They are completely unrelated issues. I didn't agree with the booing before he came on the pitch but he put in several unacceptable performances where he deserved criticism. He was one of the most gutless players we had during the post-Moyes era.

I think Goodison will be a big asset next season personally. The crowd will be behind the manager.
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Oh no, i'm fully aware my sample size is smaller, due to not being able to attend at present, but certain, i'd still hear the same, if I was at the game last night, for example.

My reason for linking Schneiderlin and Ancelotti was the case that we are satisfied to throw them under the bus at the first opportunity. We laugh at our neighbours over the road, but do the exact same things they do. My point was we just have a percentage of fans who genuinely make it a bad environment and that definitely seeps through to the players, we've got a good thing in Ancelotti, we don't need to absolutely lose our minds over it.

But again, i'm not one for arguing for the sake of it, and I hope you're correct. I actually hope that the return of fans, will actually give the fans a reason to be behind the team from the get go, and we can make Goodison a fortress again.
 

Incredible squad we've got eh?

That midfield is stocked.... There's an entire rubbish midfield here, and a couple of subs to back them up. Money well spent.

GK
RB CB CB LB

Iwobi Delph Besic Davies Gbamin Gylfi Bernard
​

​
 
navidson said:
I'm not sure if its Everton being frustratingly average or just the current world situation we find ourselves in but it all feels a bit nouty in here recently.

One of the joys of using a forum (rather than something like Twitter) is it gives the opportunity to debate certain points, put across your own perspective or critically analyse the opinions of others.

We seem to be entering an environment where if one persons view differs from another, they are instantly castigated and placed into a neat little box on one side of the fence or the other.

Making a critical point about Carlo Ancelotti doesn't mean you want him sacked, just as making a positive point doesn't mean you're delighted with the current form/playing style - these are all just opinions, and we should be able to discuss the pros and cons of them in a constructive, meaningful way.

My personal opinion on Carlo is - I really like the man, I think he 'understands' Everton and I am proud to call him our manager. I was delighted when we appointed him and still very much want him to be our manager. That isn't to say that i'm not a little disappointed with the way our season has gone, I find some of his substitutions/team selections baffling and I really wish we had a semblance of style to our play.

I tend to think that it's merely a case of 'right man, wrong time'. If Carlo would have been appointed when Koeman was (a.k.a on the eve of a the biggest spending spree the club has ever seen) - I firmly believe that we'd be playing in the CL right now. Unfortunately, we appointed Carlo at a time when the squad was overloaded with non-athletic, non-motivated players and the purse strings had been tightened. Unless we see a massive upsurge in the amount we spend this summer, it will possibly be a struggle for Carlo next season too. In hindsight, in a perfect world we would have appointed a manager capable of motivating and improving average players into something better than previously shown - Unfortunately, I don't think Carlo is that manager.

When we appointed Brands, I seem to remember conversations (or maybe just a general overarching idea) that he would mould and formulate a particular playing style and personality throughout the club. This would essentially mean that managers were less important than the club, as the players would be purchased with a particular style in mind - and the managers would be almost interchangeable. Has this idea just been completely binned off?
Click to expand...
Non athletic and non motivated players. Our current malaise very well summarised.
 
Saint Domingo said:
Perhaps a point in this, but I’d point to the fact that at times this season we were saying certain players had never played better.

DCL is in his best ever form
As recently as Anfield we were saying we’d never seen a better Tom Davies
Siggurdson has apparently had his best season since his first one in the team
Holgate had his best form last season under Carlo and at times this season when fully fit
Godfrey has improved
Even Pickford has been better since his injury break
We have all said that Keane and Mina have played their best football this season
Even Coleman at times has looked back to his old self according to some

On the flip side to that I think Richarlison hasn’t hit the heights he’s capable of and Digne is about level where he’s normally at.

So it begs the question what more could we be doing. You want a manager to improve players, he’s undoubtedly done that for most through coaching compared to where they were under Silva. The defensive organisation has improved, the set piece organisation, the efficiency upfront had improved (until Palace).

All these indicators that you’d expect from a manager are pointing in the right direction but we have a problem thy the football is terrible at the moment.

Now we could say that Ancelotti is an awful tactician but you don’t win what he has, even with good players, if you’re poor at tactics. Only Zidane has won three modern CLs. Every top manager with unlimited budgets at the best teams have tried and most don’t even have one so he’s clearly not tactically inept.

if it’s also not down to the coaching of the players to improve (which it doesn’t look like it is based on individual and collective improvements in form) then we are left with one inescapable factor.

The players are not good enough. They can’t stop making individual errors, they’re too poor to carry out tactical instructions, lazy in concentration, and not mobile enough to ply different ways or be rotated. Not good enough.

We can keep crying all day about whether Carlo is the manager he was ten years ago, but seriously, if we gave him Chelsea’s squad do we think he’d be playing football like this? Even Leicester’s squad. I’d even wager Arsenal’s squad. He’d have all those teams in the top 4 easily.

As a fan base we have to stop wishing for this Hail Mary pass of a miracle manager to come along and turn us from 30 year also fans to a top 4 team over night. This guy almost did it but he’s fallen short now in April.

Back him with some premier league standard players and we might actually go somewhere. Whilst Davies Coleman Keane Siggurdson Gomes Bernard are getting first team minutes for Everton we are going nowhere under any manager in world football.
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I think Carlo has certainly improved some of the players and I wouldn't say he's done a bad job here overall - but I just get this nagging feeling that unless we make wholesale changes at club level i.e revamp of the medic/fitness staff, removal of Brands/possibly scouts at the club and a good 5-6 very good signings this summer early doors and none of this scrambling around on deadline day then he himself has a glass ceiling at the club which isn't worth the wages he's been paid.

All the previous managers post Moyes whilst different in style of play ultimately were very similiar in personality / style of management:

Koeman / Alladyce - would rather be elsewhere

Martinez / Silva - church mouse management with naive/stubborn tendencies.

Carlo is slightly different in that he seems to want to be here and whilst slightly stubborn he does change things but I dont know if thats enough when for me this sort of club needs a manager who has a firm hand and doesn't accept performances that the likes of Iwobi, Siggurdsson, Gomes, Holgate, even Richarlison and DCL this season have put in at times.

Not hyping Biesla up but if he was manager for example Siggurdsson doesn't play if he doesn't run his socks off and some 18 yr old plucked out the academy does / system is tweaked to find a position for someone who does run - whereas he gets made captain under Carlo thats the point im sort of trying to make.
 
Thomasc said:
So it’s either 1 or 2 things.
1. Training sessions are like the opening scene in Saving Private Ryan.
2. We are the unluckiest club in the land.

Not a lot you can do about point 2.
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There is.

You mitigate as much as possible.

Whatever training/recovery/rehab/treatment the lads are getting clearly isn't keeping enough of them fit.

So it has to be looked at.

Bad luck can never be accounted for, but as with anything in life, you reduce the risk by taking preventative action. I'm sure we do take that preventative action, but whatever we're doing clearly isn't working.

Another issue is then the squad in general. Running our better players into the ground because the squad is poor.
 
ToffeeTim said:
Everyone wants to see better football but in the games we've tried to be expansive this season at home, we have been badly exposed defensively. The midfield needs quality and depth. The whole system in certain matches (like last night) is compromised to try and help an inept and immobile midfield. When we improve the squad and keep our players fit then the football will improve.

We haven't been able to name a steady line up at any point this season since the October internationals. I'm a big believer in consistency of selection. it's important in any team sport from the top level of football down to a cricket match in the village park. If people are comfortable and familiar with those around them they are more likely to perform close to their best.

Yes these are maybe excuses I am making for the manager, but I think they are valid points and need to be considered. I'm extremely disappointed with our general form since the turn of the year but the solution is to double down on how we back the manager, not to replace him.

Since Moyes left, the vast majority of our problems have been self inflicted through recruitment. Until we start getting it right both in terms of who we sign and the balance of the squad, we will continue to see too many poor results.
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Sorry mate I wasn't clear. I'm not bothered about 'expansive' football. I can deal with us being a team that plays in moments but we have to start being better. It doesn't mean 50 passes or pressing like peak Liverpool. But we literally aren't anywhere near to doing either of those things.

Need to start seeing something. Some semblance of a plan. If not, we'll forever be reliant on one or two players to stay fit.
 

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