2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[Saint Domingo]

Genuinely not knocking him but it’s not like it was a tactical master plan. It was an awful game which could have gone either way and the ‘fair’ result was probably a 0-0 draw, but we got very lucky with an absolutely appalling piece of goalkeeping.

That’s fine to say, but equally there has to therefore be some credit when we didn’t beat Spurs or Palace because of conditions o consider not to be of his making (individual errors, strikers missing chances). Across the three games the performances haven’t been that bad, I’d argue Arsenal was the worst one but when you keep it tight you always have chance.

This comes back to whether you think these players can play flowing football or not. If you do you’ll probably find disappointment, if you don’t you’ll find credit in what Carlo has done. I think some of these players are awful so for me winning at Arsenal and keeping a clean sheet is a good performance.

 

[Lanolin]

That’s fine to say, but equally there has to therefore be some credit when we didn’t beat Spurs or Palace because of conditions o consider not to be of his making (individual errors, strikers missing chances). Across the three games the performances haven’t been that bad, I’d argue Arsenal was the worst one but when you keep it tight you always have chance.

This comes back to whether you think these players can play flowing football or not. If you do you’ll probably find disappointment, if you don’t you’ll find credit in what Carlo has done. I think some of these players are awful so for me winning at Arsenal and keeping a clean sheet is a good performance.

I don’t think it’s anything to do with flowing football, that’s just a typical straw man to be honest. The point was just that it wasn’t really a great performance in any respect, we just got the rub of the green in a fairly dull and uninspiring game. There’s nothing wrong with that at all, I just find it a bit weird when people try to use it as evidence of managerial genius. Again, if we get a few more of those in the next few games this still has the potential to be a really good season and if that happens I’ll give him all the credit in the world. Stay 8th and I’ll be saying it’s a bit disappointing. We’ll see how it pans out.

 

[BlueToff]

3 points after 90 minutes is all that matters.
You do not get points for lookin good .
When it's all added up it's the points that count .
Nothing else is counted

i'm not bothered about 'looking good'

You're doing the classic thing of assuming people asking for a better way of playing are thinking Martinez 13-14 or peak Barca

The way we won tonight will get us nowhere long-term. We can scream about needing better players but after 16 months we also need to start to see better all-round play. Now, in the last two home games, we have had that, though I think the two teams we played have been on the beach/unmotivated under Jose. Yet we still couldn't get the job done, but the flashes of something sustainable were there.

I am however very glad we won tonight.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I don’t think it’s anything to do with flowing football, that’s just a typical straw man to be honest. The point was just that it wasn’t really a great performance in any respect, we just got the rub of the green in a fairly dull and uninspiring game. There’s nothing wrong with that at all, I just find it a bit weird when people try to use it as evidence of managerial genius. Again, if we get a few more of those in the next few games this still has the potential to be a really good season and if that happens I’ll give him all the credit in the world. Stay 8th and I’ll be saying it’s a bit disappointing. We’ll see how it pans out.

There really is a conflation between playing better and "free flowing football" or whatever. I look at a guy like Conte who plays pretty drab stuff when he has to but turns every club into a winner because his teams have strong defensive and attacking systems. I find it great to watch but I would never call it free flowing and crucially it is really really good for winning matches. We don't have to turn into 2011 Barcelona but we do need to be better.

 

[BlueToff]

It’s black and white when we lose though. Injuries don’t matter, bad luck doesn’t matter, individual errors don’t matter. It’s just not good enough from Carlo. When we win though there’s always a load of caveats that people rush to rather than admitting Carlo did well.

They do matter though. You're using an example of one or two posters here and you know it. For example, there wasn't much more that could be done in the Brighton game and anyone sensible accepted that.

He said himself it was a draw all over. We got lucky. That's fine. Nobody wants to see us playing like that and today we can't really pin it on injuries but we got that stroke of luck.

Let's hope in the next few games we now have the confidence from that bit of luck to get the better performances we've shown against Palace and Spurs but actually get the wins over the line.

 

[TheBigIguana]

i'm not bothered about 'looking good'

You're doing the classic thing of assuming people asking for a better way of playing are thinking Martinez 13-14 or peak Barca

The way we won tonight will get us nowhere long-term. We can scream about needing better players but after 16 months we also need to start to see better all-round play. Now, in the last two home games, we have had that, though I think the two teams we played have been on the beach/unmotivated under Jose. Yet we still couldn't get the job done, but the flashes of something sustainable were there.

I am however very glad we won tonight.

This is exactly what I'm thinking too.

I think a lot of our good performances when they do happen come from James being excellent. I really don't see much else that causes it. Which concerns me for sure.

Winning tonight is great but it isn't hard to be reasonable and say we aren't doing that most weeks.

 

[BlueToff]

This is exactly what I'm thinking too.

I think a lot of our good performances when they do happen come from James being excellent. I really don't see much else that causes it. Which concerns me for sure.

Winning tonight is great but it isn't hard to be reasonable and say we aren't doing that most weeks.

I'm not trying to criticise. We just won at Arsenal for the first time in 25 years. I'm chuffed, and we're somehow still in the race for Europe.

There's just a balance isn't there.

 

[wainy]

Not arsed how bad we played, it’s another monkey off our back. 26 years without a win and he’s done it. Yes, we were utterly terrible, but we’ve played great in the past and got nothing. If anything this manager knows how to win games. Up the toffees!

 

[TheBigIguana]

I'm not trying to criticise. We just won at Arsenal for the first time in 25 years. I'm chuffed, and we're somehow still in the race for Europe.

There's just a balance isn't there.

Yeah balance is it for me.

I love winning games but when we're 8th I'd also like to be able to watch us play well sometimes too. If we're being jammy and sitting top I wouldn't care at all. We aren't though, so I'm sort of at the point where a bit more would be nice.

 

[dublinbluenose]

Such a weird last few pages. Everton win at the Arse for the first time in 1/4 century and we're debating style over content.

Its not prefect but theres a proper foundation and organisation there.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Such a weird last few pages. Everton win at the Arse for the first time in 1/4 century and we're debating style over content.

Its not prefect but theres a proper foundation and organisation there.

I'm so glad Big Sam didn't fluke a win at Anfield

 

[BlueToff]

Such a weird last few pages. Everton win at the Arse for the first time in 1/4 century and we're debating style over content.

Its not prefect but theres a proper foundation and organisation there.

The proper foundation and organisation is there... kind of.

We still look a bit of a mess, but we've managed to keep in touching distance. If we can become slightly less of a mess in the last few games, we could be in for a very good finish.

 

[navidson]

Such a weird last few pages. Everton win at the Arse for the first time in 1/4 century and we're debating style over content.

Its not prefect but theres a proper foundation and organisation there.

I suppose that's the joy of the forum TBH - shouldn't be as black and white as Win = Delighted and Lose = Furious

There's never a bad time for a bit of debate

 

[Thomasc]

Let’s not beat around the Bush, we were gash, like we have been in the majority of games in the last few weeks.
But, it he gets us Europe with this squad then he’s pulled up trees and we should be thankful.

 

[ToffeeTim]

We've had some excellent results like tonight and we've had some woeful results mainly at home. The football isn't great but the squad isn't great either. The midfield lacks quality and we struggle to move the ball forward.

On the whole things are clearly improving and thats the main thing. We already have 3 points more than last year. Tonight's result means we still have something to play for over the next few games and that is progress.

The football will get better if they continue to back the manager and improve the squad. We need better players but once we get them, the football will improve. Results are always the most important thing though and that's why we have the right manager.

One of the biggest signs of progress all season is that we've just scraped a win at the Emirates but people aren't happy with the performance. Yeah we did play pretty rubbish and won through a goalkeeping howler, but we've played well there before and thrown it away. There is a foundation being built here and we just need to keep things going in the right direction.