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2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

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Encoder said:
Disagree, he's lashed on King but he's always in the wide position to get more pace down the flanks. I think it's a bit unfair on Ancelotti, given that Silva would lash on Tosun/Walcott/Niasse or whoever with clearly no idea what to do.

You can always see the logic of what Ancelotti does at least. Silva just threw people on and hoped for the best.
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I'm going to have to look now back at the games but when Tosun returned from injury there were 2-3 where he lashed on Tosun and played 4 strikers and 2 midfielders and it, guess what, never worked.

On that bit in bold, there's no way there was any logic to certain games this season btw.

Again, it's ignoring stuff because Carlo's great. Yeah, he is, doesn't mean he hasn't made some mistakes. He set us up in genuinely one of the worst systems and shapes I've seen an Everton manager do (and I include Allardyce in that) away at Newcastle, and then played exactly the same awful system at home to Fulham. He decided Iwobi could play left wing-back and Davies could play right-wing back in a game against Leeds. He regularly plays Gomes, James and Gylfi in the same midfield.

Love the guy to bits but I've not got blinkers on.

It's a weird season though, and the standard across the board atm is very, very poor. Everyone's knackered, and we do need players. So I'm taking all of these caveats on board and I am not suggesting Ancelotti can be judged as being ready to be backed or sacked or anything daft like that, as he's going nowhere (rightly so) and I believe he'll get us tangible success.
 
I don't believe we will ever have a swashbuckling attacking style under CA, I don't think it is the way he wants his team to play football.
CA places as much emphasis on defending as on attacking.

The primary task for the manager is raising the expectations within the club, I have never heard him speak as if the club cannot compete at the top level, he has always said the team can qualify for Europe and has even held out hope of a CL place even though very few supporters feel that can happen this season.

The summer's transfer activity will be fascinating and the targets set by the manager equally so.

The style of football is something that will have to follow results and hopefully success.
 
@Encoder

So the first one where he did it was Newcastle (A) in that dreadful game where he genuinely got everything wrong.

Then Man Utd (H). We dominated the ball in the second half yet did F all with it. He lobbed Tosun on alongside DCL, Bernard and Iwobi as a front four - taking James off (maybe he'd asked to come off, dunno) so we had nobody to actually get the ball to them - I remember thinking at the time that was very Silva.

He also did it against Burnley (A), lobbing Tosun on to play in that role again with Iwobi pushing right up so it was 4-2-4. We hardly created anything bar that little piece of magic from James where Sigurdsson had his shot saved. But we were, up until that point, just doing the kitchen sink thing.

Believe it was also the same with United at home in the League Cup.

They stood out at the time because I couldn't believe Ancelotti made the same mistake Silva did. Because he's so much better than him.
 
Encoder said:
I was a huge fan of the old 'lash-on-3-strikers-at-the-end-with-absolutely-no-instruction' plan which gained us 0 points ever. He was utterly clueless.
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My favourite gash sub was when Martinez brought Mirallas on against United at Wembley after Martial had just scored with 1 second of stoppage time remaining.
 
Subs = Players become tired and on last legs, Players are playing crap, players signal to dugout that they need replacing, players are subbed due to a tactical change. We cannot continue to say bad subs when the result does not go our way as that is too simplistic and that is an opinion based on 'after the event'. A manager has to make a choice during the game not knowing the aftermath of that decision. They are trying to rectify a problem or just replacing a spent player with a fresh one. We have to stop this blame culture that is all based on 'hindsight'. Managers when making a sub decision don't have the benefit of hindsight and only have hope. If a sub does not work out it is not really clever or profound to call out a manager unless you know all the facts behind a sub.
 

BlueToff said:
oh ffs

I actually put in one of the posts you quoted that yes, I think it can be a good thing.

However, people keep saying 'once we get better players, we'll see this style etc etc' - my point is, and the point of others in here like @Lanolin (I believe) - is that i think that's pie in the sky.

You can set a style of play without exactly the right players. You can have a template, an identity, and then from then on you build up the quality as you can.

He's had 16 months to do that, and hasn't done. So, I don't think he's going to.

That's not moaning. It's pointing out that the argument for why that hasn't happened is just down to not having good enough players doesn't wash for me.

We have very little in the way of patterns of attacking play. We've started to see some form of press recently which is good, but we're very reliant on certain players being fully fit or playing on top form.

Despite this we're still in the hunt for Europe and that's great. I'm no longer having blind faith with any manager. Just because I think Carlo is the right man doesn't mean I can't point out what are quite obviously flaws with how we play.
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*sniffs*

Yes, a different line of attack from the anti-Carlo clique

You've defo got the pitchfork hidden under the sack cloth...
 
Daveysgingerlovechild said:
*sniffs*

Yes, a different line of attack from the anti-Carlo clique

You've defo got the pitchfork hidden under the sack cloth...
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Some people post as if we don't have multiple useless players on big contracts and we have the pull of CL to attract the best players. Ancelotti has worked wonders with a squad full of Silva and Allardyce duds.
 

BlueToff said:
oh ffs

I actually put in one of the posts you quoted that yes, I think it can be a good thing.

However, people keep saying 'once we get better players, we'll see this style etc etc' - my point is, and the point of others in here like @Lanolin (I believe) - is that i think that's pie in the sky.

You can set a style of play without exactly the right players. You can have a template, an identity, and then from then on you build up the quality as you can.

He's had 16 months to do that, and hasn't done. So, I don't think he's going to.

That's not moaning. It's pointing out that the argument for why that hasn't happened is just down to not having good enough players doesn't wash for me.

We have very little in the way of patterns of attacking play. We've started to see some form of press recently which is good, but we're very reliant on certain players being fully fit or playing on top form.

Despite this we're still in the hunt for Europe and that's great. I'm no longer having blind faith with any manager. Just because I think Carlo is the right man doesn't mean I can't point out what are quite obviously flaws with how we play.
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Everyone is entitled to their view, so I'm not having a go, but clearly he has a style of play, but you need the players to be able to do it.

Silva and Martinez had a style of play, but we rarely showed it, because without the right players it doesnt work. The best managers are able to select the right style of play for the players they have available.

We will finish at least top 8, perhaps top 6 and maybe top 4 this season. From where we were when he took over that is astounding progress. If youd have said, after that Anfield game when Silva was sacked, in 18 months you'll be level with these, not a single person would have believed you.

I'm all for not having blind faith in any manager, but what I'd also say, is you have to be objective in how you evaluate a manager. Just because he doesnt have what seems a singular style of play, doesnt diminish what hes achieved.
 
catcherintherye said:
Everyone is entitled to their view, so I'm not having a go, but clearly he has a style of play, but you need the players to be able to do it.

Silva and Martinez had a style of play, but we rarely showed it, because without the right players it doesnt work. The best managers are able to select the right style of play for the players they have available.

We will finish at least top 8, perhaps top 6 and maybe top 4 this season. From where we were when he took over that is astounding progress. If youd have said, after that Anfield game when Silva was sacked, in 18 months you'll be level with these, not a single person would have believed you.

I'm all for not having blind faith in any manager, but what I'd also say, is you have to be objective in how you evaluate a manager. Just because he doesnt have what seems a singular style of play, doesnt diminish what hes achieved.
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Does he though?

Across his many achievements with many teams, can you pinpoint what an Ancelotti team looks like? What it does?

I can't. It's a bit like Zidane for me - and there's plenty of other examples I'm sure but he's the one that springs to mind.

He's not a 'philosophy' manager, if that's a better way of putting it? He adapts to what he has. My concern is sometimes with us, maybe he's looked to tweak too much? We are probably, right now, best off being at our basics, but if we are going to do that, we need to be managing a bit more than one shot on target still, because as we've seen it only gets you so far mate.

I'll stop going round in circles. Just because I don't think he's beyond criticism doesn't mean I want him out or don't think he's the right man for the job. Outside of the very top managers in Europe (who are at the top clubs), I don't think there's anyone else I'd rather have right at this moment than Carlo.
 

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