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2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

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davids said:
Some people post as if we don't have multiple useless players on big contracts and we have the pull of CL to attract the best players. Ancelotti has worked wonders with a squad full of Silva and Allardyce duds.
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16 of the 25 are Brands signings so if the squad is so bad why are we giving him another contract then? also the huge amount of Allardyce signings that are killing the squad (all 2 of them) have both left. Carlo is on a mega wage, we are getting what we payed for imo, working wonders would be taking one of the many. many chances we had to cement 4th place but failed to.
I always like to give a manager 2-3 seasons which is only fair especially with no fans this season, but he would never have been my choice for a manager, the Carlo/Brands thing is 5 years too late for me. I don't expect 'pretty football' Ancelotti has always been a 'results' manager rather than style, the style thing and his odd subs is what cost him at Chelsea and elsewhere. This season needs to end and we need to get a few more players in, another 3-4 and with everyone fit you are talking about a mostly Carlo team and nearly all Brands bought squad and it's no excuses then for me. Id be very surprised if certain sections of our home support will sit there watching some of those performances next season like they have at times this one.
I just think people need to calm down on both sides of the spectrum with this and see where it goes tbh.
 
BlueToff said:
Does he though?

Across his many achievements with many teams, can you pinpoint what an Ancelotti team looks like? What it does?

I can't. It's a bit like Zidane for me - and there's plenty of other examples I'm sure but he's the one that springs to mind.

He's not a 'philosophy' manager, if that's a better way of putting it? He adapts to what he has. My concern is sometimes with us, maybe he's looked to tweak too much? We are probably, right now, best off being at our basics, but if we are going to do that, we need to be managing a bit more than one shot on target still, because as we've seen it only gets you so far mate.

I'll stop going round in circles. Just because I don't think he's beyond criticism doesn't mean I want him out or don't think he's the right man for the job. Outside of the very top managers in Europe (who are at the top clubs), I don't think there's anyone else I'd rather have right at this moment than Carlo.
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Yes all very fair.

I suppose my points (trying not to do my usual waffle) would be;
1) I think a lot of philosophy type managers are frauds. People end up getting too bogged down in the supposed philosophy and end up not judging the results
2) Its only a good philosophy if it wins games
3) At a club in our situation, who is effectively caught between 6 teams above and 13 below, I am not sure a single philosophy works, as in many ways you need at least 2 distinctive ways of playing.
4) Invariably the philosophy only works when they win. When they lose, you just dont see it.
5) The key for any manager is to win games, how that is done is very secondary.

Other people will want someone with a philosophy. I cant say I'm massively bothered. Injuries will potentially cost us top 6 and in all likelihood top 4 this season. If we can add some quality and avoid the worst injuries in the league, we can do it next season.
 
Simon Buttle said:
16 of the 25 are Brands signings so if the squad is so bad why are we giving him another contract then? also the huge amount of Allardyce signings that are killing the squad (all 2 of them) have both left. Carlo is on a mega wage, we are getting what we payed for imo, working wonders would be taking one of the many. many chances we had to cement 4th place but failed to.
I always like to give a manager 2-3 seasons which is only fair especially with no fans this season, but he would never have been my choice for a manager, the Carlo/Brands thing is 5 years too late for me. I don't expect 'pretty football' Ancelotti has always been a 'results' manager rather than style, the style thing and his odd subs is what cost him at Chelsea and elsewhere. This season needs to end and we need to get a few more players in, another 3-4 and with everyone fit you are talking about a mostly Carlo team and nearly all Brands bought squad and it's no excuses then for me. Id be very surprised if certain sections of our home support will sit there watching some of those performances next season like they have at times this one.
I just think people need to calm down on both sides of the spectrum with this and see where it goes tbh.
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In all honesty, were fans in we would probably be in the top 3 now. The fans will be having the time of their loves watching that.
 
We don't have a style and I agree with good or bad players you should have one, I do have to sympathize with Ancelotti a lot though regarding the injuries mostly to our best players have made it hard to get going down that road, I also think he's genuinely surprised how close we are for a European spot throughout the season and has been more focused on stopping the opponents than creating a way for us to win games so he's been tinkering with formations and positions to give us the best chance to win the game.

It's something I'm hoping with a new RB, I can't stress how not having someone up and down the right hand side has killed us this entire season and more signings will implement next season.
 

Simon Buttle said:
16 of the 25 are Brands signings so if the squad is so bad why are we giving him another contract then? also the huge amount of Allardyce signings that are killing the squad (all 2 of them) have both left. Carlo is on a mega wage, we are getting what we payed for imo, working wonders would be taking one of the many. many chances we had to cement 4th place but failed to.
I always like to give a manager 2-3 seasons which is only fair especially with no fans this season, but he would never have been my choice for a manager, the Carlo/Brands thing is 5 years too late for me. I don't expect 'pretty football' Ancelotti has always been a 'results' manager rather than style, the style thing and his odd subs is what cost him at Chelsea and elsewhere. This season needs to end and we need to get a few more players in, another 3-4 and with everyone fit you are talking about a mostly Carlo team and nearly all Brands bought squad and it's no excuses then for me. Id be very surprised if certain sections of our home support will sit there watching some of those performances next season like they have at times this one.
I just think people need to calm down on both sides of the spectrum with this and see where it goes tbh.
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Have you forgotten Besic? He even goes back to Martinez. Heaven knows how much our Brazilian bench warmer is on. Did Ancelotti have a say in the appointment of Brands? And don't start me on Iwobi. Ancelotti Is managing with one hand tied behind his back.
 
catcherintherye said:
Yes all very fair.

I suppose my points (trying not to do my usual waffle) would be;
1) I think a lot of philosophy type managers are frauds. People end up getting too bogged down in the supposed philosophy and end up not judging the results
2) Its only a good philosophy if it wins games
3) At a club in our situation, who is effectively caught between 6 teams above and 13 below, I am not sure a single philosophy works, as in many ways you need at least 2 distinctive ways of playing.
4) Invariably the philosophy only works when they win. When they lose, you just dont see it.
5) The key for any manager is to win games, how that is done is very secondary.

Other people will want someone with a philosophy. I cant say I'm massively bothered. Injuries will potentially cost us top 6 and in all likelihood top 4 this season. If we can add some quality and avoid the worst injuries in the league, we can do it next season.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree mate. But to me having basic patterns of attacking play that aren't reliant on one or two players doesn't add up to a philsophy. It comes from work on the training pitch, drills, players knowing where to be and where to run and when to time it etc.

Now, I fully appreciate that better players help with that. And we need better players. But, when I watch us a lot of time it seems that we just lack any of those basic concepts bar a few odd exceptions. Not completely missing, but we don't do them enough. I just feel we can have better in that aspect and arguably should have better 16 months in.

But back to your general point I do agree. I'm not asking for some philosophy of passing it out from the back at any cost or being dead set on counter-pressing or anything like that.
 
Godfrey
James
Doucoure
Allan
They might have been Brands signings but I suspect Ancelloti had a lot of input into them signing for us. That gives me optimism for future windows. Carlo is no fool, he knows what we need.
 

this has been nice adult respectful debate today on the carlo show buddies well done to all for unusual pleasant interactions i hope it does not last.
 
Ancelotti doesn't do playing styles or philosophies. He doesn't try and turn players into robots like Klopp. He gets good players in, and makes them believe in themselves, that's his style.
 

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