2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Not necessarily

Oh god, you.

The fact you think so probably indicates it is.

 

[TheBigIguana]

That’s because we had absolutely nothing to play for in the back half of Silva’s first season. I’ve seen that season which Silva produced countless times under Moyes Martinez Koeman and even Allardyce. Start off promising but too many draws burst the bubble, then collapse over Christmas and January, out of both domestic cups by February and in the bottom half, then once there is no pressure whatsoever go on a great run at Goodison to finish just outside the European places. It’s happened loads of times and for me it’s a nothing season. Brushing aside City or United 4-0 at home is ok but when it means nothing then there’s only so much stock you can put in that performance, because in all those seasons the second we had a game that meant anything (a derby, away game at top 6, win to get into Europe etc.) we just folded like a pack of cards. That’s not a style of play, that’s not consistency, that’s just playing with the freedom of no expectation in the Goodison sun. It’s rubbish.

Ancelotti has been scrapping all season in the top 6. Whether that was the good football ah the start of the season, the counterattacking team at Christmas good at set pieces, or the 532 that won four in a row and at Anfield. It’s not always been pretty but unlike Silva Koeman and Martinez, Ancelotti hasn’t thrown the season away already. He’s won games that actually matter, hard ones away at Liverpool Arsenal Spurs Leicester Leeds.

This season could have been very different. We could have barely won over the Christmas period trying to play thee same way we did at the start of the season with Siggurdson in for James and Davies in for Allan. Carlo could have blamed the injuries. Then we could have beaten Fulham Newcastle and Burnley at home, lost all the big games, and we’d be in 11th talking about how if we could just win all our games we might make europe. It would be an absolute rinse and repeat season though.

Ancelotti has changed things at the club that other managers no matter what the circumstances haven’t managed in decades. All those managers who had a prime Lukaku, or who had the best full back pairing in the league at their disposal, who had creative players like Arteta and Pienaar, who had Idrissa Gueye. How Carlo would love to have talent like that his disposal. Not one of them though could manage an away win at Anfield or the Emirates. Not one of them could manage ten away wins. Only twice have we ever come close to challenging the top 4 into April. Most of them could barely win a game when their top players weren’t available yet alone have the best win % in Everton’s prem history.

But at least Silva had a plan though.

Not one of them played all the away games in empty stadiums.

And Carlo has James Rodriguez even if he's missing time and that pisses all over the names you're mentioning there. This isn't some hard luck job that he's knocking out of the park.

This feels like a post that might need revisiting in time.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Oh god, you.

The fact you think so probably indicates it is.

It isn't absolute either way. You both need to be able to be flexible and also need to be able to institute something of a style of play to fall back on. We've got one.

 

[the sniderman]

It isn't absolute either way. You both need to be able to be flexible and also need to be able to institute something of a style of play to fall back on. We've got one.

buddy have u ever been tested for the adhd??

 

[Dixie1sixty]

We looked better under Silva in the back half of his first season than we have done at pretty much any stage this year since October.

I don't think that we're worse off, btw, but we did at least see the general plan with Silva, it was just flawed and even moreso when Gana was sold.

I know these players aren't good enough. However, if he wanted to implement a certain style in terms of our attacking play, he would have done, even with these players. Atm our attacks need James to be on form to function - if not it's very much hit and hope.

I just want to see that change up a bit, so we can hopefully start to see the template of something, in the knowledge that we need those players to come in and really make it work.

I have no issue with winning games in a scrappy style, it just isn't sustainable.

One of the most commonly voiced criticisms under Silva was that we had no definitive style and it was difficult to see what he was trying to do.

The revisionism of some on this forum is incredible.

Style is largely dependent on personnel and some want to see Carlo introduce a swashbuckling, pacey style with Sigurdsson, Davies, James, Allan and Gomes forming our midfield for most games and an ageing Seamus Coleman at RB. It ain't gonna happen until we get different players.

 

[Dario Terracotta]

He will certainly require this transfer window,January and next summer to formulate his own players and style whilst trying to rid us of the "deadwood",it is as they say "a work in progress".

 

[18Chris87]

Still can't believe people are moaning about him knowing he has a mix of 3/4 different managers players, loads of players bought for inflated prices or who just aren't good enough for where we need to aim at, had numerous injuries to key players, with all three of the midfielders he's brought in having long periods out, and he's still kept us within touching distance of the top 4, won away at some top 6 sides for the first time in decades, won away in the derby for the first time in decades.

He's shown he can adapt his teams and change things where needed. You want him to have a set style when he's well known for giving his players freedom going forward and he'll know exactly where he needs to improve and with rumours we're in for a right fullback and a winger, it shows we're looking at the correct players. The best part about all of this is even though we're within reach of the top 4, likely to get a place in the Europa league regardless, is that it's considered a disappointing season by Ancelotti's standards. That's not because he himself has underperformed or failed to do something, it's because he doesn't have his team yet. When he does we're going to be getting results, results and more results, who really cares if it's not pretty.

 

[Curtis]

Is there any word on when fans can return to the stands? Because they definitely motivate our team and awaken them out of their stupor at times.

 

[OnlyTheBestIsGoodEnough]

Is there any word on when fans can return to the stands? Because they definitely motivate our team and awaken them out of their stupor at times.

17th of May at the latest if all goes to plan with the government's data

 

[Encoder]

That’s because we had absolutely nothing to play for in the back half of Silva’s first season. I’ve seen that season which Silva produced countless times under Moyes Martinez Koeman and even Allardyce. Start off promising but too many draws burst the bubble, then collapse over Christmas and January, out of both domestic cups by February and in the bottom half, then once there is no pressure whatsoever go on a great run at Goodison to finish just outside the European places. It’s happened loads of times and for me it’s a nothing season. Brushing aside City or United 4-0 at home is ok but when it means nothing then there’s only so much stock you can put in that performance, because in all those seasons the second we had a game that meant anything (a derby, away game at top 6, win to get into Europe etc.) we just folded like a pack of cards. That’s not a style of play, that’s not consistency, that’s just playing with the freedom of no expectation in the Goodison sun. It’s rubbish.

Ancelotti has been scrapping all season in the top 6. Whether that was the good football ah the start of the season, the counterattacking team at Christmas good at set pieces, or the 532 that won four in a row and at Anfield. It’s not always been pretty but unlike Silva Koeman and Martinez, Ancelotti hasn’t thrown the season away already. He’s won games that actually matter, hard ones away at Liverpool Arsenal Spurs Leicester Leeds.

This season could have been very different. We could have barely won over the Christmas period trying to play thee same way we did at the start of the season with Siggurdson in for James and Davies in for Allan. Carlo could have blamed the injuries. Then we could have beaten Fulham Newcastle and Burnley at home, lost all the big games, and we’d be in 11th talking about how if we could just win all our games we might make europe. It would be an absolute rinse and repeat season though.

Ancelotti has changed things at the club that other managers no matter what the circumstances haven’t managed in decades. All those managers who had a prime Lukaku, or who had the best full back pairing in the league at their disposal, who had creative players like Arteta and Pienaar, who had Idrissa Gueye. How Carlo would love to have talent like that his disposal. Not one of them though could manage an away win at Anfield or the Emirates. Not one of them could manage ten away wins. Only twice have we ever come close to challenging the top 4 into April. Most of them could barely win a game when their top players weren’t available yet alone have the best win % in Everton’s prem history.

But at least Silva had a plan though.

I was a huge fan of the old 'lash-on-3-strikers-at-the-end-with-absolutely-no-instruction' plan which gained us 0 points ever. He was utterly clueless.

 

[BlueToff]

Then this is a good thing, yes?

In short, why have you spent the last god knows how many pages moaning?

oh ffs

I actually put in one of the posts you quoted that yes, I think it can be a good thing.

However, people keep saying 'once we get better players, we'll see this style etc etc' - my point is, and the point of others in here like @Lanolin (I believe) - is that i think that's pie in the sky.

You can set a style of play without exactly the right players. You can have a template, an identity, and then from then on you build up the quality as you can.

He's had 16 months to do that, and hasn't done. So, I don't think he's going to.

That's not moaning. It's pointing out that the argument for why that hasn't happened is just down to not having good enough players doesn't wash for me.

We have very little in the way of patterns of attacking play. We've started to see some form of press recently which is good, but we're very reliant on certain players being fully fit or playing on top form.

Despite this we're still in the hunt for Europe and that's great. I'm no longer having blind faith with any manager. Just because I think Carlo is the right man doesn't mean I can't point out what are quite obviously flaws with how we play.

 

[BlueToff]

That’s because we had absolutely nothing to play for in the back half of Silva’s first season. I’ve seen that season which Silva produced countless times under Moyes Martinez Koeman and even Allardyce. Start off promising but too many draws burst the bubble, then collapse over Christmas and January, out of both domestic cups by February and in the bottom half, then once there is no pressure whatsoever go on a great run at Goodison to finish just outside the European places. It’s happened loads of times and for me it’s a nothing season. Brushing aside City or United 4-0 at home is ok but when it means nothing then there’s only so much stock you can put in that performance, because in all those seasons the second we had a game that meant anything (a derby, away game at top 6, win to get into Europe etc.) we just folded like a pack of cards. That’s not a style of play, that’s not consistency, that’s just playing with the freedom of no expectation in the Goodison sun. It’s rubbish.

Ancelotti has been scrapping all season in the top 6. Whether that was the good football ah the start of the season, the counterattacking team at Christmas good at set pieces, or the 532 that won four in a row and at Anfield. It’s not always been pretty but unlike Silva Koeman and Martinez, Ancelotti hasn’t thrown the season away already. He’s won games that actually matter, hard ones away at Liverpool Arsenal Spurs Leicester Leeds.

This season could have been very different. We could have barely won over the Christmas period trying to play thee same way we did at the start of the season with Siggurdson in for James and Davies in for Allan. Carlo could have blamed the injuries. Then we could have beaten Fulham Newcastle and Burnley at home, lost all the big games, and we’d be in 11th talking about how if we could just win all our games we might make europe. It would be an absolute rinse and repeat season though.

Ancelotti has changed things at the club that other managers no matter what the circumstances haven’t managed in decades. All those managers who had a prime Lukaku, or who had the best full back pairing in the league at their disposal, who had creative players like Arteta and Pienaar, who had Idrissa Gueye. How Carlo would love to have talent like that his disposal. Not one of them though could manage an away win at Anfield or the Emirates. Not one of them could manage ten away wins. Only twice have we ever come close to challenging the top 4 into April. Most of them could barely win a game when their top players weren’t available yet alone have the best win % in Everton’s prem history.

But at least Silva had a plan though.

Just to be clear, there is no way on Earth I would rather have Silva over Ancelotti.

You're not getting my point. You're just doing the same thing of thinking I'm wanting Carlo out.

We've done well this season. Money spent, I think we should be getting more out of a squad assembled for £500m. I think those players should be able to play quick passes. I think they should be able to run with the ball. I think they should be able to have more than one player in the box when crosses are getting lumped in from the left touchline, and our left-back who's doing that has little support.

Do we need better players? Absolutely. But can't all these things also be done with the players we have, so we could see a kind of way that we might want to play going forward? I think we could.

 

[BlueToff]

I was a huge fan of the old 'lash-on-3-strikers-at-the-end-with-absolutely-no-instruction' plan which gained us 0 points ever. He was utterly clueless.

Yeah it was awful.

Weirdly enough, Ancelotti has done that a fair bit too.

 

[BlueToff]

One of the most commonly voiced criticisms under Silva was that we had no definitive style and it was difficult to see what he was trying to do.

The revisionism of some on this forum is incredible.

Style is largely dependent on personnel and some want to see Carlo introduce a swashbuckling, pacey style with Sigurdsson, Davies, James, Allan and Gomes forming our midfield for most games and an ageing Seamus Coleman at RB. It ain't gonna happen until we get different players.

Erm, I don't think it was?

That first season under Silva we were one of the teams that pressed the most in the league. The plan was pretty clear.

That second season it fell to bits. But it was pretty clear what he tried to do. FFS, he tried to do it in his last game at Anfield and we got battered.

I also didn't actually say it was an amazing plan. I just said, there was an attempt at an identity there, right from the off. With Ancelotti there hasn't been. I'll stress again, since people can't get it into their heads, that doesn't mean it's the wrong approach. I just think it's a bit weird to suggest that we'll suddenly see a proper defined identity once we have another window. It doesn't work like that. Pep had it instilled at City straight away. He won nowt in that first season, and finished 4th. They invested in the areas they needed to and went and did what they did - but the identity was in place right from the off. Same with Klopp - the foundation in within weeks, months, in terms of the identity. Then you get better players to come and fill those roles. We have not seen that here in 16 months so I don't see where the idea comes from that we will do. If we sign 3-4 players this summer, we'll still be a team that doesn't have a particular style, we'll just hopefully have better players to ensure we get more results over the line.

A swashbuckling style ffs. I've not asked for that. I've asked for us to have patterns of play that aren't hit and hope or win a set-play or wait for James to come up with some brilliance.

Who decided to pack the midfield with Gomes, Gylfi and James the other day? A week after our midfield had actually looked pretty good with Allan and Davies sitting and that allowed James and Gylfi to play further forward?

 

[Encoder]

Yeah it was awful.

Weirdly enough, Ancelotti has done that a fair bit too.

Disagree, he's lashed on King but he's always in the wide position to get more pace down the flanks. I think it's a bit unfair on Ancelotti, given that Silva would lash on Tosun/Walcott/Niasse or whoever with clearly no idea what to do.

You can always see the logic of what Ancelotti does at least. Silva just threw people on and hoped for the best.