2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[MikeH72]

Absolute rose tinted revisionism. Most wanted him out in his last 2 seasons. He only hung on because we didn't have a pot to slash in and he knew he was succeeding Ferguson.

Unquestionably, undeniably, the 'best' football we've played in the last 30 years was under Martinez. It's just a fact.

How many times did we beat (what was) the 'top four' away under Mr Gun-to-a-knife-fight?

2013 When he left remember this>

Can Everton manager David Moyes finally end his big-four hoodoo?

Everton manager has never won at United, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea and it’s make or break for Champions League entry at the Emirates tonight, he tells Simon Hart

www.independent.co.uk

Everton manager has never won at United, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea...​

Personally I think there’s a lot of rose tinted revisionism that goes on around the 2013/14 season. People look at the number 72 at the end of the season and remember the Arsenal game and United away, but if you actually dig deeper into individual games that season there were loads of times we got massively lucky and won late on after we’d played horrendously. Cardiff at home when Coleman shinned one in in the last minute, West Ham at home, Hull at home, Villa at home we were absolutely grim that day, Sunderland away we were gash and won off an own goal, West Ham away we needed two direct free kicks from Baines to bail us out. I remember we were particularly bad in away games against Liverpool, Spurs, West Brom and Southampton. There were definitely warning signs of the collapse that would follow in the subsequent seasons after we stopped riding our luck. I think we were a better team from 07-09 under Moyes despite not reaching the magical 72.

 

[Terrarian]

Can't wait for the West Ham game. West Ham poorer squad on paper than Everton. Tactically we will see who is the better manager! Might be some silly looking people on this forum if West Ham take us apart.

We said Carlo is a better manager, trophies say he is, not that he is unbeatable.

 

[Brisan123]

Checks notes from 2016

The vaults are a cruel mistress

 

[Brisan123]

Well I guess we've found the village idiot.

Ancelloti has managed to break decade long curses against Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs this season with this absolute state of a squad that he had no hand in. Decade long curses that started because Moyes would go into those matches with the now famous attitude of "taking a knife to gunfight".

How many times did Moyes actually get us in the champions league again?

I’ve a fair idea which village the idiot belongs to as well

 

[Brisan123]

Well said. Very sensible post.

I never knew stupidity was more infectious than Covid

 

[the sniderman]

disgustingly entitled cowards

interesting that u use this term about someone else buddy. do u happen to have a mirror close by??

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Personally I think there’s a lot of rose tinted revisionism that goes on around the 2013/14 season. People look at the number 72 at the end of the season and remember the Arsenal game and United away, but if you actually dig deeper into individual games that season there were loads of times we got massively lucky and won late on after we’d played horrendously. Cardiff at home when Coleman shinned one in in the last minute, West Ham at home, Hull at home, Villa at home we were absolutely grim that day, Sunderland away we were gash and won off an own goal, West Ham away we needed two direct free kicks from Baines to bail us out. I remember we were particularly bad in away games against Liverpool, Spurs, West Brom and Southampton. There were definitely warning signs of the collapse that would follow in the subsequent seasons after we stopped riding our luck. I think we were a better team from 07-09 under Moyes despite not reaching the magical 72.

I also recall the Villa away and Palace away games that year being incredibly fortunate. They both continually broke on us but missed everything the created. Good chances too, because defensively we were wide open.

Started to get punished further down the line. Notably Liverpool away, but particularly the following seasons.

 

[Dom1878]

The best football I've seen in my life as an Evertonian, for a number of those years. An absolute joy watching the likes of Baines, Pienaar, Arteta, and Cahill massively outperform their meagre transfer fees, and seeing the almost rebirth of the likes of Distin, Yakubu, Martyn, with Carsley, Gravesen, Jagielka and Howard leaving their all out of the field.

What I wouldn't give to be able to bring back ANY of the above back to play for us from that era.

Nowadays we just have a bunch of grossly overpaid, disgustingly entitled cowards who seemingly aren't bothered whether we win, lose or draw. It's all just a bit of a laugh for the Everton squad and has been for a decade.

The only club in world football where the more money we spent, the worse we got.

I along with many others wanted Moyes out towards the end. Martinez came in and showed us exactly what that squad was capable of, way beyond what Moyes got out of them. Our only source of nice football came via Baines and Pienaar and beyond that I can't really remember any football which was amazing to watch (bar manuel fernandes). Our main advantage under Moyes was a solid defence, and high work rate around the rest of the pitch - that was what made the Everton of old great.

 

[Gilbert..]

David moyes simply is a better manager than carlo ancelotti in my opinion. I couldn't care less about trophies, something severely lacking by a lot of people is something called perspective. David moyes when at Everton did an unbelievable job, the kind of which hasn't been repeated by 4 or 5 managers since all with a bigger budget.

Carlo is by no means a mug and has done a very good job at most places in his career. But the perspective is that David moves at Everton on his budget was realistically competing with 14 teams to get that 5th place, the 4 above at the time were on a different planet with their budget so couldn't realistically be expected to be caught. David regularly achieved 5th and 6th places finishes. The idea that he's now doing the same at West ham is no fluke, it is further proof of his managerial ability.

The other jobs he had since leaving Everton can not be measured fairly as he simply didn't have any time to stamp his identity on those clubs.

I look at West ham now and see everything I grew up seeing watching Everton under Moyes. Their fans must be so proud of their performances and so confident that they can get a result anywhere. Everton as a comparison are the opposite. We just look terrible and one dimensional.

I will stick by Carlo for the mere fact that we have no other option at this time and it would cost too much to replace him. But I was calling for Moyes before we got Carlo and even started a thread and it got taken down. This kind of proudness from some people calling Moyes a traitor and the like is exactly the reason why we keep finding ourselves in these predicaments.

Its not all been negatives with Carlo but I dare say had we got Moyes instead we would be much much further in our progression towards the top than we are now.

The first and last paragraph are interesting. Moyes hasnt won a single trophy in 21 years as a manager. Thats quite a sweeping statement to say winning things doesnt matter.
Rest of it i can agree with.
Then the last paragraph.
Ancelotti walked into this mess of a squad. 50 years an Evertonian and ive not seen a manager been left with so many wasters and players with no heart for a fight, who moyes wouldnt tolerate for a second himself. Moyes would have the same issue as ancelotti has. Windows to get rid.

 

[DanB90]

 

[mccole]

I loved Moyes and I think alot of Blues did too.

He was solid and gifted in the transfer market and I think if he was given more financial support, he would've won a cup with us.

But ultimately, he took us as far and beyond what he could do.

Carlo has nearly done what Moyes did in a season - the fact he get less credit is mad.

 

[Egil Olsen]

I loved Moyes and I think alot of Blues did too.

He was solid and gifted in the transfer market and I think if he was given more financial support, he would've won a cup with us.

But ultimately, he took us as far and beyond what he could do.

Carlo has nearly done what Moyes did in a season - the fact he get less credit is mad.

Moyes took over a club that was in a financially very difficult situation, and where the graph pointed downwards. The team had in the last seasons before Moyes took over achieved the following placements:

When he took over in March, we were on our way down. Ancelotti, on the other hand, took over an Everton team that has never had the financial strength as now, and which in recent years had had the following placements in the PL. Everton's ambition is to qualify for Europe.

They had two different starting points. Moyes usually did better than expected, while Ancelotti has so far only done as expected - perhaps a little worse than we had hoped. This is not a pro argument for Moyes, he has had his time here, but we should be able to admit that relatively speaking he did very well with Everton. So far, Ancelotti can not match this, but there will be a new season and the season is not finished either.

 

[blueblue]

Moyes took over a club that was in a financially very difficult situation, and where the graph pointed downwards. The team had in the last seasons before Moyes took over achieved the following placements:

View attachment 126536

When he took over in March, we were on our way down. Ancelotti, on the other hand, took over an Everton team that has never had the financial strength as now, and which in recent years had had the following placements in the PL. Everton's ambition is to qualify for Europe.

View attachment 126538

They had two different starting points. Moyes usually did better than expected, while Ancelotti has so far only done as expected - perhaps a little worse than we had hoped. This is not a pro argument for Moyes, he has had his time here, but we should be able to admit that relatively speaking he did very well with Everton. So far, Ancelotti can not match this, but there will be a new season and the season is not finished either.

Ancelotti almost certainly will have greater access to more funds than David Moyes.
But, it is hardly fair to judge him before he really gets to spend those funds.
He has had one summer window and in that time recruited JR, Godfrey, Doucoure and Allan.
Arguably all of them are contenders for Everton player of the season.
Let's give him self and Brands a second window and maybe even a third and then see what he has delivered.

 

[Kylito]

I along with many others wanted Moyes out towards the end. Martinez came in and showed us exactly what that squad was capable of, way beyond what Moyes got out of them. Our only source of nice football came via Baines and Pienaar and beyond that I can't really remember any football which was amazing to watch (bar manuel fernandes). Our main advantage under Moyes was a solid defence, and high work rate around the rest of the pitch - that was what made the Everton of old great.

Yeah agreed, if Baines and Pienaar couldn’t create something then we’d play it back it to Neville who would do his trademarked chipped ball up towards Cahill/Fellaini who’d then try and flick it on and hope something good happens. This was pretty much the game plan every single match.

Remember an FA cup game vs Birmingham where it was all we did for 90 minutes - just booting it up for Roger Johnson/Scott Dann to head away every single time.

 

[mccole]

Moyes took over a club that was in a financially very difficult situation, and where the graph pointed downwards. The team had in the last seasons before Moyes took over achieved the following placements:

View attachment 126536

When he took over in March, we were on our way down. Ancelotti, on the other hand, took over an Everton team that has never had the financial strength as now, and which in recent years had had the following placements in the PL. Everton's ambition is to qualify for Europe.

View attachment 126538

They had two different starting points. Moyes usually did better than expected, while Ancelotti has so far only done as expected - perhaps a little worse than we had hoped. This is not a pro argument for Moyes, he has had his time here, but we should be able to admit that relatively speaking he did very well with Everton. So far, Ancelotti can not match this, but there will be a new season and the season is not finished either.

Moyes was excellent but his failure to beat a "Top 6" away from home for a decade is surely a huge blot on his CV plus his failure to advance in cup competition against Villarreal 05, Fiorentina in 08, Standard in 09, Sporting 10, RS in 12, Wigan in 13 and every single League Cup campaign are further proof that he was a good manager but we needed better.