2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[MercuryBlue88]

From me he gets a pass till we have a balanced squad. Any team will struggle without a right hand side. We have nothing there.

 

[arbok]

The difference between City v Everton yesterday is that most of their midfielders and forwards, are attack minded midfielders first, but they can also defend/ trained to defend.

Whereas we're asking Doucoure/Allan/Davies to do what Mahrez, Foden and De Bruyne are doing - create. That's why we give up the ball so easily. I like Allan and Doucoure in certain situations, but playing them in the middle isn't going to beat a top 4 team unless you sit back and nick a goal on the counter. I accept that's what we had to do this season short of players.

We need to buy attack minded players who can do a job defensively - obviously that's not cheap, but if they can train Mahrez to do it, then its just a matter of time for other players. Like I don't even think James is that much of a liability so long as its not like the entire midfield is James in which case you would struggle to get the ball back.

Looking at the lineup yesterday, Holgate has no ability to attack, he's a centre back. None of midfield can attack, Siggy is useless. Richarlison is better wide, and DCL has no service. It's a bad team that's set up to only defend and then hope Siggy can play it behind the defence one time for Richy/DCL and it never happens. Do any of Davies, Allan, Doucoure get in the box? The team needs a rethink.

 

[brieverton]

it depends on the situation at the time. two bad seasons in a wrong is certainly a concern and there wouldn't be many other managers that would last that long. Even Wolves had one bad season this year and he's out.

That said, I doubt a real solid foundation can be fixed over one year, that's my real concern. The two times its happened Chelsea and Man City, took insane amounts of money to get legitimate improvement. Many teams gain a bit of improvement, until their weaknesses get exploited and they regress again. If it was so easy, other teams who've spent money could jump the queue as well.

The issue for Everton is that they need 8-10 legimate good players this summer especially if they're going to to get rid of 4 or 5 players (hey maybe more), Siggy, Gomes, Bernard, Iwobi just to name a few, because we had a lot of games where the entire bench was just academy players. I just don't think that's happening.

Honestly who's going to make Man City's team from the Everton team - not a single player... peak Richarlison maybe, and he's behind all those players playing his position. Richarlison needs to have a good long look at himself honestly - he's behind De Bruyne, Foden, Mahrez, Sterling, Torres.

I agree but we are not going to get that many, we might not get half.

I'd be amazed if Ancelotti thought things would be turned around by this time next year.

But we can make a start that is based on something that is sustainable.

We can distinguish between league placings at any given time and seeing something in front of our own eyes that we think is more likely to last.

The biggest disappointment over the last three years, and I point the finger at Brands again here, is that we are not adding players that are building a squad, apart from one or two exceptions. That's simply not good enough.

I can take finishing say, 8th next year, if its done on the back of something that I might legitimately think could get us 6th the following season.

 

[Saint Domingo]

If he brings in another 4-5 of his own signings this summer and we miss out on Europe again next season and finish 8th-12th with no trophies at that point would you question if he is the man to take us forward?

Depends on the circumstances. If he’s backed in the market and brings in more first team playersand they stay reasonably fit and there’s still no progression next season then yes it would be time to question if he is the right man.

If, however. the club give him Olsen on a perm, a backup striker and a new right back as his only additions, then we get into the season and Allan James are missing most of it again and our new right back has been crocked. Then we’re right back to the same gutless players playing week in and week out and lo and behold we’d probably end up bottom half again.

It might shock you that I’m not a massive Carlo super fan. There’s some good stuff he’s done in my opinion, and there’s some stuff that I just can’t understand why he’s done it. What I’m more interested in is that we root out the core problem at the club rather than always just firing a manager. If like you said we have drastically changed the profile of the squad and there’s no comparison between it and the 17/18 wasters then yes let’s assess the manager at that point. But at the moment I just think any assessment of any manager is not that effective because the majority of this group consist of players who have seen Martinez Koeman Allardyce Silva fired.

It makes me worry that if we pulled the trigger on Carlo, then the next manager would be looking at another long term rebuild whilst trying to get results using the same players who have failed every other manager.

 

[arbok]

I agree but we are not going to get that many, we might not get half.

I'd be amazed if Ancelotti thought things would be turned around by this time next year.

But we can make a start that is based on something that is sustainable.

We can distinguish between league placings at any given time and seeing something in front of our own eyes that we think is more likely to last.

The biggest disappointment over the last three years, and I point the finger at Brands again here, is that we are not adding players that are building a squad, apart from one or two exceptions. That's simply not good enough.

I can take finishing say, 8th next year, if its done on the back of something that I might legitimately think could get us 6th the following season.

I agree - AC Milan a couple of seasons ago got 8 players in, and that season couldn't get so many players settled. It was basically asking the entire team to start all over again. Most teams know this and don't go for a complete overhaul unless they have tons of money to spend on legit players.

Also agree with the bolded part, that if we're building a squad, these players have to improve, and the players we get improve. But it appears these players have regressed.

That's why people expecting the team to dramatically improve just from getting 4 or 5 players, we have pull something out of the rabbit hat like a Bruno Fernandes and the chances are slim.

 

[faddy the blue]

Lack of motivation is a fair criticism. My only problem is it's been an issue for the past several years, and we've blamed several previous managers for it in the same way some are blaming Carlo.

At the end of the day, he is in charge and assumes the responsibility of someone in charge, but I can't help but think the problem is more complex than any one manager's shortcomings. Is Carlo Ancelotti really going to be the next manager we run out of town due to issues that have existed for the past 7+ years?

Baines and Coleman were the last of the 100% committed players we had. Both from Moyes' era. Almost all of Martinez's signings have been shipped. We are plagued with Koeman's signings in our wage bill but only 3 of them are in current playing 11, Sigurdsson, Keane and Pickford.

Sam signed 2 big money players - Walcott and Tosun, both have been banished.

All the rest of the squad is what was assembled 2018 onwards by Brands, Silva and Carlo. So there is no case of blaming 7+ years anymore as those players are not the ones playing on the pitch.

In this day and age, there is not a single club except Man City that can say they have the whole squad at 100% committment. You need to get the best out of players and reinvigorate them, like Klopp does, like Rodgers did, like Tuchel did when he took charge.

I am sorry. After working close to 18 months with this group, it all just seems to convenient for him to question the players week in week out whereas he bloody should have gotten more out from them against Sheffield, Leeds, Newcastle, Fulham, Palace....at Goodison.

I just don't have any faith in Brands or Carlo's soft Serie A management approach. He is searching for personalities like Seedorf, Pirlo and Kaka in 2021. Good luck, these are spoilt millenial brats these days, gotta coach them differently. That's what Jose is now realising and that's what Carlo needs to realise.

 

[davek]

He always takes over two sessions a week and is always at the training ground.

He does let his son oversee set-pieces - a success tbf, by and large - but tactical sessions are run by Carlo.

There were a few reports about it around the derby win especially.

Good to know he's turning up for training then.

 

[kenada_blue]

Thankfully most of them are nearer the end of their contract now than the beginning. Except Kean who we should be able to sell, and Iwobi who we are probably stuck with.

If we can make a profit on Kean then we should take a loss on Iwobi and move him on. Hopefully we can sell plenty of others to make small profits and negate any accounting issues. There will be lots of wages saved too so we really should be in a better position than 12 months ago. Even Walcott & Bolasie will have cost us a lot every week.

Walcott and Bernard saves us £200+k plus a week alone in wages too

 

[arbok]

I'm probably pointing out the obvious - but we should be after players like these - fit attack minded players. When I watch leeds attack, they're all streaming into the box. It's fun to watch. I'd buy 5 or 6 of these players, guys like Jack harrison, Ayling, Dallas, Phillips.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Walcott and Bernard saves us £200+k plus a week alone in wages too

Bernard is another we have to move on. He came on a free so any fee should be profit. If we have to take less than 5m then we should do it.

 

[davek]

If I'm Carlo and in his position: a member of the great manager's club; nothing to prove; massively rich already; cracking on a bit - I'd run a mile from this job.

It entails a Herculean effort to gut a squad that an incompetent DoF shows no aptitude for, and it requires me personally scouting my own players and putting in the work doing that AND coming up with a new approach to the football club where youth has to be blended with purchases from sales plus a bit of cash AND a fashioning a way of playing that is more expansive, as befits the needs of this league.

The fact his son is here with him and employed by the club might be complicating it for him but, IMO, the honourable and sensible thing would be to come to an arrangement with Moshiri and walk away and leave this massive rebuild for someone with the appetite and hunger for it.

As far as I'm concerned, this is an experiment that's doomed to failure. He is palpably the wrong manager for this club at this moment in time. He just cant have the motivation or skills to create again from pretty much scratch a club with this lack of talent and this much expectation from fans.

If he stays I'd back him; but IMO it's the time for him to move aside and let it go.

 

[kenada_blue]

Bernard is another we have to move on. He came on a free so any fee should be profit. If we have to take less than 5m then we should do it.

Think his is a done deal to Saudi or wherever.

 

[kenada_blue]

If I'm Carlo and in his position: a member of the great manager's club; nothing to prove; massively rich already; cracking on a bit - I'd run a mile from this job.

It entails a Herculean effort to gut a squad that an incompetent DoF shows no aptitude for, and it requires me personally scouting my own players and putting in the work doing that AND coming up with a new approach to the football club where youth has to be blended with purchases from sales plus a bit of cash AND a fashioning a way of playing that is more expansive, as befits the needs of this league.

The fact his son is here with him and employed by the club might be complicating it for him but, IMO, the honourable and sensible thing would be to come to an arrangement with Moshiri and walk away and leave this massive rebuild for someone with the appetite and hunger for it.

As far as I'm concerned, this is an experiment that's doomed to failure. He is palpably the wrong manager for this club at this moment in time. He just cant have the motivation or skills to create again from pretty much scratch a club with this lack of talent and this much expectation from fans.

If he stays I'd back him; but IMO it's the time for him to move aside and let it go.

He knows that it's a rebuild. I don't think that's ever been a secret.

 

[Gilbert..]

Baines and Coleman were the last of the 100% committed players we had. Both from Moyes' era. Almost all of Martinez's signings have been shipped. We are plagued with Koeman's signings in our wage bill but only 3 of them are in current playing 11, Sigurdsson, Keane and Pickford.

Sam signed 2 big money players - Walcott and Tosun, both have been banished.

All the rest of the squad is what was assembled 2018 onwards by Brands, Silva and Carlo. So there is no case of blaming 7+ years anymore as those players are not the ones playing on the pitch.

In this day and age, there is not a single club except Man City that can say they have the whole squad at 100% committment. You need to get the best out of players and reinvigorate them, like Klopp does, like Rodgers did, like Tuchel did when he took charge.

I am sorry. After working close to 18 months with this group, it all just seems to convenient for him to question the players week in week out whereas he bloody should have gotten more out from them against Sheffield, Leeds, Newcastle, Fulham, Palace....at Goodison.

I just don't have any faith in Brands or Carlo's soft Serie A management approach. He is searching for personalities like Seedorf, Pirlo and Kaka in 2021. Good luck, these are spoilt millenial brats these days, gotta coach them differently. That's what Jose is now realising and that's what Carlo needs to realise.

All of them walked into far better quality of player squads than this current Everton manager has. And how long did it take klopp to get them to a level he wanted? More than 18 months.
You're living in a dream world if you think any of those managers would walk into this Everton job and get a consistent tune out of what is basically a mid table side. Is any of them going to install pressing style on the likes of sigurdsson gomes and iwobi? They havent got it in them.
The poor recruitment is still here right now punching us in the face as a reminder every game we play.

 

[matty1878]

If I'm Carlo and in his position: a member of the great manager's club; nothing to prove; massively rich already; cracking on a bit - I'd run a mile from this job.

It entails a Herculean effort to gut a squad that an incompetent DoF shows no aptitude for, and it requires me personally scouting my own players and putting in the work doing that AND coming up with a new approach to the football club where youth has to be blended with purchases from sales plus a bit of cash AND a fashioning a way of playing that is more expansive, as befits the needs of this league.

The fact his son is here with him and employed by the club might be complicating it for him but, IMO, the honourable and sensible thing would be to come to an arrangement with Moshiri and walk away and leave this massive rebuild for someone with the appetite and hunger for it.

As far as I'm concerned, this is an experiment that's doomed to failure. He is palpably the wrong manager for this club at this moment in time. He just cant have the motivation or skills to create again from pretty much scratch a club with this lack of talent and this much expectation from fans.

If he stays I'd back him; but IMO it's the time for him to move aside and let it go.

why is it doomed to failure? They’res no logical reason for you to say this.

pretty sure Carlo knew we woudnt be champions over night etc.

time/players are needed and patience

if he didn’t think he could do it he woudnt be here Dave

let’s crack on aye