2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[johnjoeefc]

It’s the mentality of the squad. It’s very very poor. We were like this in the second season of Silva. Coleman highlighted it last year. Lack of dedication and commitment. Too many players on big wages who have no real desire to be winners and be successful. Turning up every week knowing that because the squad in general is so poor they don’t even have to try hard to cement a place in the team but generally will be happy to sit on the bench claiming their money.

Look at Iwobi last year had an embarrassing season and as soon as the season ends he’s taking pictures of his flashy lifestyle and jets like he’s earnt that. He’s done nothing to deserve that. You’d have thought the criticism he received for that would have made him want to try harder this season and prove a point but no he was even worse this season.

Then you’ve got players like James and Gomes who know they can pick and chose when they want to play, crocks like Delph, big headed players who think they’re better than they are like Holgate, players like Richarlison who only turned up in January but thinks he’s immune from being dropped and taken off like his performances have been outstanding, when let’s be honest he’s been horrendous for most of the season. Throwing tantrums and squaring up to his own players.

I generally think this current crop are the worst we’ve had for a long, long, time. In terms of cohesion and spirit I don’t see much if any at all. I just see a lot of weak minded and unsuccessful individuals with very limited ability, here because it’s a comfortable job that earns them mega cash.

The fact we have missed out on European football and the fight for it has been non existent since the turn of the new year really says it all about this group.

Very good point.

I was watching the man utd documentary on their 90s glory years yesterday and the culture of the club and how it changed. When Ron Atkinson was there he would encourage the players to go out partying, drink what they want etc.

When Ferguson came in the whole landscape changed and he instilled a workmanlike mentality into all the players and throughout the core of the club. We had the same principles as that when Moyes was here but could not afford the quality that utd had and that's why I was desperate for him to return when available. No manager since has been able to replicate that and its there where the issue is.

There are too many hiding places for players and not enough retribution for underperformers. It again all comes down to hunger from the management team and you have to ask is a manager like Ancelotti really going to be up to the task of getting every last drop out of these players. I would suggest probably not. I do believe he is focused and has the desire to do well, but the signs since he's joined are that it will likely be mediocrity throughout his tenure unless if the board really break the bank and sign top top quality players.

 

[Eggs]

....for me, Ancelotti found a way of winning away games with the resources/players he had. That system was also employed in home games but was totally ineffective because the players were incapable of taking the game to the opposition.

Ancelotti did not have the resources to deploy another approach (no plan B), so he had one way of playing.

The discussion is whether Ancelotti is culpable for not having player options that allowed us to be more expansive in games.

 

[Dixie1sixty]

....for me, Ancelotti found a way of winning away games with the resources/players he had. That system was also employed in home games but was totally ineffective because the players were incapable of taking the game to the opposition.

Ancelotti did not have the resources to deploy another approach (no plan B), so he had one way of playing.

The discussion is whether Ancelotti is culpable for not having player options that allowed us to be more expansive in games.

Agreed, and obviously he can't be.

 

[messymascot]

I think the problem was we got off to an unbelievable start and expectations were raised. The team is probably about 6th-8th best the squad about 8th-10th best. The unfortunate thing was we ended up not having anywhere near our strongest team out for enough games which meant we fell away. I think people expected Ancelotti to work miracles and what he needs is time. He failed on a couple of things but he got results where previously we haven't competed. What he needs is to be able to put out a side with players who will play as required and I think top 6 is achievable.

 

[John from Bootle]

I was sort of thinking ten points better off this season is progress but then someone earlier in the thread argued well that he only managed the second half of the season last year, and that Silva had left him with a meagre points total for half of that base season. I’m a sucker for a superior argument like.

I’m firmly in the give him time camp and my reasoning is simple, if anyone can fix Everton then it’s probably him. He can attract talent we wouldn’t possibly get to help us get a leg up, and it’s refreshing to see a versatile manager employing different tactical systems rather than the one trick slugs we’ve had as his predecessors. I’ve seen green shoots of cracking the glass ceiling with the wins at Spurs, Arsenal and Big Red, throw in the Leicester away win and the fight back at Old Trafford to that too. I’m probably more patient as I’m verging on apathy after so many false dawns and painful weekends, the chopping and changing hasn’t work even with some serious backing from Moshiri. From Moyes right through to Silva we’ve tried so many different formulas and then got in a toxic boom bust cycle of 18 month managers, poor recruitment and the new man trying to sift through the patchwork of players with an understandably impatient fanbase getting upset when the next chronic dip happens. So I’m tired, we’ve been going nowhere really for 26 years so what’s giving this man a couple of years and seeing if the formula of “patience” bucks the trend. Lest we turn into hysteria ridden Geordies narrating our own pitiful soap opera. If Ancelotti fails then sack it, just fold us and reclaim our weekends for stuff that serves us better than Everton.

I get the angst as we’ve once again passed up great opportunities to level up this season and the past few months have been really bad. It’s not hysteria to have some of those decisions criticised. Progress usually isn’t linear though so this plateauing won’t be in vain if, and it’s a big if, Ancelotti takes the falling short in quality and character from some of his players as a mandate to exit them out and attract them with players who remedy it.

So as a simple as that in my head. Which is a simple head but hey, keep on killing each other in here as it’s decent entertainment.

Well said.

The mad thing is; as a fan base, we've witnessed -more than most others- the benefits of patience and stability. It was once a significant weapon in our arsenal, and one that had clubs such as Spurs and Newcastle looking on in envy, whilst they employed chump after chump, and payed through the nose for it.

Continuity is good. As long as you're not sticking with a clown.

 

[D410]

Carlo needs to find more goals next season from everywhere so his ins need to reflect that this summer.

 

[Houghty19]

If our midfielders scored 15 extra goals we'd have been 3rd.

It's exactly what we had in the 80's teams that were successful we can't just rely on strikers to score our goals.

 

[kenada_blue]

I get that mate, but... nobody is thinking at the start of the season we need xx points (other than to stay up, like).

The points total only becomes relevant as the season draws on, and genuinely I'd really say only about with 10 games to go.

Yes it perhaps does point to progress, but the league this year has been a strange one. Would Arsenal fans say they have progressed this season? They finished with five more points than last year.

Think it depends on the club and it's intentions. Arsenal have been in a decline from where they usually have been, which is top 4 averaging 70 to 80 points a season. Now it's 55-60. That's a benchmark to fall from

We need a benchmark.

 

[MikeH72]

I think the 10 points better off this season is also skewed by how bad the bottom three teams were. Mentioned it in another thread but 15 teams (ourselves included) either equalled or bettered their points tally this season compared to last.

We're all genuinely kidding ourselves into thinking this was a season of progress, the past 3-4 months have been some of the worst football we've seen - luckily not live - at Goodison. I want to back Ancelotti and give him the summer to get it right cause it feels a bit like 'if not him, who else?' to take us forward but I have zero trust that he and Brands will sign the right players and give us a proper team to take into next season.

The bottom 3 teams were an absolute disgrace. “But two of them beat us at home” isn’t a response either, they all failed to reach 30 points which is unheard of in the Premier League era.

 

[BlueToff]

Think it depends on the club and it's intentions. Arsenal have been in a decline from where they usually have been, which is top 4 averaging 70 to 80 points a season. Now it's 55-60. That's a benchmark to fall from

We need a benchmark.

But the issue with setting a benchmark at the start of the season mate is that it changes throughout. So you really can't set a points benchmark until you know how the table is shaping up.

At the start of the season, you can't say 'we want 60 points' because as we've seen 60 points doesn't guarantee you anything.

You set aims based on position or winning a trophy etc - i.e. qualify for CL, EL or whatever, so you need a top four/six finish. Then when it's some way into the season, you can start to define a points total. Not at the start, because there's just no way of predicting what the points share will be.

 

[brieverton]

But the issue with setting a benchmark at the start of the season mate is that it changes throughout. So you really can't set a points benchmark until you know how the table is shaping up.

At the start of the season, you can't say 'we want 60 points' because as we've seen 60 points doesn't guarantee you anything.

You set aims based on position or winning a trophy etc - i.e. qualify for CL, EL or whatever, so you need a top four/six finish. Then when it's some way into the season, you can start to define a points total. Not at the start, because there's just no way of predicting what the points share will be.

The one thing Martinez said that made sense - that you could only set targets with 8 games left.

The worrying thing was that most of us knew a collapse of sorts was coming and it had started well before the run-in began in earnest.

The same as last season, its as if collectively they decided there was nothing to play for.

When you perform as poorly as we did in some games, then the difference between being in Europe and not actually boiled down to something quite small - but still they couldn't rise to it.

Thats my concern with a legendary figure watching from the sideline - he can't go out there and do it for them but I'd have thought at least some of them would be willing to work harder, in tandem with a set-up and style of play such that everyone knows their job.

This season has been on all of them, they're all to blame.

 

[Gilbert..]

The bottom 3 teams were an absolute disgrace. “But two of them beat us at home” isn’t a response either, they all failed to reach 30 points which is unheard of in the Premier League era.

Fulham won at leicester and liverpool.
West brom put 5 past chelsea at stamford bridge.
I think there's a bubble around this forum that tends to think they only turned over Everton.

 

[kenada_blue]

But the issue with setting a benchmark at the start of the season mate is that it changes throughout. So you really can't set a points benchmark until you know how the table is shaping up.

At the start of the season, you can't say 'we want 60 points' because as we've seen 60 points doesn't guarantee you anything.

You set aims based on position or winning a trophy etc - i.e. qualify for CL, EL or whatever, so you need a top four/six finish. Then when it's some way into the season, you can start to define a points total. Not at the start, because there's just no way of predicting what the points share will be.

I see that as the overall goal. That overall goal can change as a season progresses.

I think progress is based on points because the average points does guarantee something as you can split the tiers based on it, be in the mix for reaching a goal.

It works across all the positions. If you're a team that is set up to guarantee hitting 40 a season, you stay up. Then you work on that benchmark.

At the moment are we a team that averages 50 points based on the last few seasons. Regardless of it finishing 10th, 7th etc that's not good enough total to attempt to be challenging for top 4/6.

It's just a way of looking at the progress on your team IMO. It's about winning points not league positions. You here the old quote from managers saying "we don't look at league positions" and "concentrate on the next game" for a reason sometimes.

 

[Jeff Jones]

We need to look at what he had to work with. He brought in Rodriguez, Allan and Doucoure, who we can't be critical of unless you're very picky, because
they greatly improved the squad.
He was criticised here for his midfield selections, mainly Sigurdsson and Gomes, but I think the lack of pace was a problem whatever midfield he picked, and it didn't work for James.
Let's see what he can do to improve the squad in that area before we make any judgement.

 

[APN_EFC]

I rhink we only have one big chance - this Summer - to make the most of Don Carlo's pull as a manager. Without Europe, and with 10th place, only this Summer can Carlo, James, DCL, Godfrey, Richy and a couple of others sell Everton to prospective players. I mean that the attraction of playing for him, and with good young players will quickly fade if we don't make the most of it now, then actually do well enough for top 6. So this season, we can't afford to take another small step. If you imagine each place costs a few million and top 4 or top6 is worth a lot more money and fame, then it's crucial we take the risk and the innovative approach of real revamp of the squad. It's not worth any more to just let go of Besic, Bolasie Walcott and a few no names who Carlo has never heard of, and then just buying 3 players. We need to get 4 first teamers 4 young players, promote 4 players, and seriously get rid of 12 of that squad.

Iwobi, Bernard, Gomes, Delph, Keane, Holgate, Olsen, King, Siggy, plus Walcott, Tosun, Bolasie, Besic...anyone else?

Otherwise I think we'll find Carlo, James and a few others will leave us next Summer after another top 10 finsih.