2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[John from Bootle]

Ok i'll try one more time.

I believe we are trying to speed up our progression, and have a serious target of finishing the top 6 this season; not an ultimate goal that we appreciate is unlikely, but an achievable target that they would be disappointed not to reach. Ancelotti said at the start of the season that it was 'important' for us to get into Europe, not that it was our dream scenario. I believe that we look well capable of meeting that target. I believe that Ancelotti was the right appointment and James, Allan etc were excellent ideas because (that's the key bit) they tie in with what I believe our aim is. I am positive because I like what our objectives are, and I believe we can meet them. If i didn't think our aim was to speed up the progression, and believed finishing midtable would be an acceptable return this season, then I wouldn't think we had done excellent business, because it would appear completely unnecessary.

Some people are doing the same as they did with Martinez I think; pretending that they're positive and totally buy into it but then baulking at the idea that we should actually expect to achieve anything. Pretending that expectations have risen while simultaneously doing everything they can to dampen them. I don't buy into that. I don't believe Ancelotti has come here to spend 4 years chipping away at the top 6. I believe he's come here to compete at the top end of the table, and expects to qualify for Europe this year and use it as a springboard. If we narrowly miss out that's a shame but understandable and not the end of the world, but I have no doubt at all that it is what the club set as an objective at the start of the year.

Yeah, or maybe the club just the manager the target of, you know, improving?

 

[Lanolin]

Yeah, or maybe the club just the manager the target of, you know, improving?

That's possible, yes. I was, you know, pretty clear that I was, you know, only giving an opinion, not suggesting it was a fact. Again though, you know, I don't think it would be a good idea to, you know, pay a manager £10m a year and ask him to take us from 12th to 11th, but, you know, you're welcome to disagree.

 

[Zatara]

Well the club has been quite clear that Europe is the target, and that means aiming for top 6, so I think it's a logical target. You don't appoint Ancelotti and spend your budget on expensive 29 year olds with no sell on value to finish 8th. Whether the squad is as good as some others is kind of irrelevant really, if we're not aiming to outperform those teams in the short term then we've made some very strange decisions.

Yep. My point was that I think the summer window dealings were done with a view to achieving our target of European football this season. With that target in mind, the business was very good. If you don't believe that was the target, then I think the business looks less good, because if our plan was for the longer term then I don't think the signings we made really fit into that. As an aside I don't think we can really say James was free and took a paycut. I think we've got him for 'free' from Real, but paid him the rest of the wages he would have received from them in a lump sum.

The club's aim is to finish 'in the champions league or european places', Ancelotti has said this numerous times. The only bizarre comment is suggesting that you have a better idea of the truth of that than him I would have thought.

But seeing as I never said it was, that really doesn't matter.

As an extension of the point though, I believe the moves we have made have been with a view to accelerating our improvement. If we were aiming to get into Europe in 3 years then the signings of Doucoure, Allan, James and Olsen (and possibly King) weren't particularly clever moves. Arguably neither was the appointment of Ancelotti. I believe we made these moves specifically because we wanted to push ourselves into those positions in the short term, and then start to build from there. Unless we're able to throw an absolutely huge amount of money at the squad this summer, there's a pretty good chance that we won't have one of the best 6 squads in the league next season either. At some point you have to back yourselves to overcome that, otherwise what's the point. It's why you pay a manager £10m a year, why you forget about sell on value for players etc. I've said before, you can finish 8th-10th in this league with a bang average squad full of plodders. We have been proof of that ourselves over recent years. There's absolutely no point in stretching the wage bill and pushing the ffp limits to settle for the same places you can achieve with a team full of Robbie Bradys and Ben Mees. Thankfully, I don't believe the club are doing, but if i did, i certainly wouldn't be as happy about it as some people seem to be.

Just on the point about hiring Ancelotti and signing players like Allan, James and Doucoure.

I dont think its an 'all or nothing' kind of push this season. I think those signings were made for this and 2 more seasons to give us (with Ancelotti) a higher probability to finish near the top.

That also gives us this summer + next summer (when a huge amount of players are out of contract) to continue to build a side of younger players, with the experienced ones carrying them along mentally.

I really believe that summer 2022 is when we'll be at the next step and that year is the target for top 4.

If we do finish top 4 this season i think its just enables us to keep laying the foundations for 2022 season and bring in a higher quality of player.

 

[davids]

he sang DCLs praises early doors and keeps playing Tom Davies, he sees these guys in training every day so he must see a future player in Davies and, if he continues to progress, he may well be right. TD still has a couple of years of development yet (as does DCL)

You did notice the laugh in my post? I'm amazed at the number of posters who venerate Ancelotti and then the same day slag off Davies who Ancelotti obviously rates. Funny old game.

 

[arch stanton]

You did notice the laugh in my post? I'm amazed at the number of posters who venerate Ancelotti and then the same day slag off Davies who Ancelotti obviously rates. Funny old game.

yes pal, it was aimed at those who blindly slate a kid who is still learning the game, Carlo knows.

 

[Thomasc]

You did notice the laugh in my post? I'm amazed at the number of posters who venerate Ancelotti and then the same day slag off Davies who Ancelotti obviously rates. Funny old game.

Well let’s be honest honest here, if Allan was fit Davies wouldn’t be playing, so let’s not get over excited.

If you can’t or couldn’t see how bad Davies’s performances were up until recently then footballs not for you mate.

He was absolute garbage after lockdown, but he kept playing as we didn’t have a Dacoure or Allan and Gbammin has been perma injured. There was very little choice and Davies was absolutely woeful, as were Gomes and Gylfi our only other options for CM.

If he is improving, then smashing. But let’s not go down this ridiculous road you are going down, which is we can’t question it because Ancelotti picks him. Because I just have and it’s valid.

 

[Lanolin]

Just on the point about hiring Ancelotti and signing players like Allan, James and Doucoure.

I dont think its an 'all or nothing' kind of push this season. I think those signings were made for this and 2 more seasons to give us (with Ancelotti) a higher probability to finish near the top.

That also gives us this summer + next summer (when a huge amount of players are out of contract) to continue to build a side of younger players, with the experienced ones carrying them along mentally.

I really believe that summer 2022 is when we'll be at the next step and that year is the target for top 4.

If we do finish top 4 this season i think its just enables us to keep laying the foundations for 2022 season and bring in a higher quality of player.

Yep, I agree with that. I'm not suggesting it's all or nothing, and I certainly don't think top 4 this year was even on the radar. I think they have set a target of top 6 this year but if they miss out it's not the end of the world. I don't agree with the idea that they'll be happy floating around 8th-10th though, I think 8th is 'par' and below it would be a real disappointment. But once again, I don't expect that to be an issue.

 

[Bullens Rd]

yes pal, it was aimed at those who blindly slate a kid who is still learning the game, Carlo knows.

In all fairness he's not a kid, he's a 22-year-old man with over 100 appearances to his name. At least call it for what it is!

 

[davids]

Well let’s be honest honest here, if Allan was fit Davies wouldn’t be playing, so let’s not get over excited.

If you can’t or couldn’t see how bad Davies’s performances were up until recently then footballs not for you mate.

He was absolute garbage after lockdown, but he kept playing as we didn’t have a Dacoure or Allan and Gbammin has been perma injured. There was very little choice and Davies was absolutely woeful, as were Gomes and Gylfi our only other options for CM.

If he is improving, then smashing. But let’s not go down this ridiculous road you are going down, which is we can’t question it because Ancelotti picks him. Because I just have and it’s valid.

Who said you didn't have a right to criticise him? As I have the right to support him. Odd that Ancelotti Is certain Allan will stay fit the second half of the season because he made no attempt to sign another midfielder. Maybe your right football isn't for me,I've been telling myself just that since I first watched Vernon, Young,Ball etc. lol

 

[Saint Domingo]

Yep, I agree with that. I'm not suggesting it's all or nothing, and I certainly don't think top 4 this year was even on the radar. I think they have set a target of top 6 this year but if they miss out it's not the end of the world. I don't agree with the idea that they'll be happy floating around 8th-10th though, I think 8th is 'par' and below it would be a real disappointment. But once again, I don't expect that to be an issue.

id agree with this. I thought we had the 9th best squad when the season started. The injury to Jimenez and late sale of Jota effectively nudged us to 8th. Top 6 is therefore a decent target, but it’s important to stress that if it’s achieved I’d view this as overachievement by Ancelotti. For me I wouldn’t be shocked by the overachievement as I think he’s very good but if we make it it means we’ve finished ahead of two of the top 7 (top 6 plus Leicester) perhaps Arsenal give us that opportunity but will still be a good effort with this squad to get ahead of one of the other teams. What annoys me is the one off outbursts accompanying losing games to Newcastle or drawing at Burnley. We don’t have a divine right to beat anyone. This team is sometimes going to perform like a bottom half team, and other times it will perform like a top 6 team, that’s the lower and upper ranges of a squad that is around 8th or 9th best in the league.

 

[Toffeelover]

You did notice the laugh in my post? I'm amazed at the number of posters who venerate Ancelotti and then the same day slag off Davies who Ancelotti obviously rates. Funny old game.

Could that be why we love it and we are true blue?

 

[Toffe3m4n]

Just now - 'for the stability of the club, the European positions is better (than winning a cup)'

 

[davids]

Could that be why we love it and we true blue?

Love hate thing,last minute equaliser against United love, second half at Fulham thought I might well have a heart attack my BP must have been that high.

 

[brieverton]

There must be a bit of pressure on Ancelotti from the board. It would be healthy and even welcomed by Ancelotti I would think. Not that it's the sort of pressure that means "top six at minimum or out you go" but in the collective sense everybody at the club has to embrace expectation and the pressure that comes with it. You don't appoint Carlo Ancelotti and think 10th is ok. You don't do it thinking 6th is ok either but it is in the short-term.

I believe in part that Ancelotti/the club went for the signings we made with that expectation in mind.

I won't be jumping for sheer joy if we secure Europa League football, but I'll be pleased and see it as an accomplishment of sorts. It would be progress and arung on the ladder climbed. I'd settle for Europa League each season for the remainder of Ancelotti's initial contract. Get there, expose the squad to the extra demands, and meet those demands whilst sustaining improvement in the league and actually having the gall to do well in the competition we worked hard to qualify for.

Spurs (again) used the Europa League well as a springboard to what turned out to be successful and sustained Champions League qualification.

We need to make Europe, I think Ancelotti will be disappointed if we don't. What he does with teams is get them over the line. The line for us is Europe. He may need another season at it but I believe it is achievable this year. It may not have been if it was A.N. Other in the dug-out.

 

[Lanolin]

id agree with this. I thought we had the 9th best squad when the season started. The injury to Jimenez and late sale of Jota effectively nudged us to 8th. Top 6 is therefore a decent target, but it’s important to stress that if it’s achieved I’d view this as overachievement by Ancelotti. For me I wouldn’t be shocked by the overachievement as I think he’s very good but if we make it it means we’ve finished ahead of two of the top 7 (top 6 plus Leicester) perhaps Arsenal give us that opportunity but will still be a good effort with this squad to get ahead of one of the other teams. What annoys me is the one off outbursts accompanying losing games to Newcastle or drawing at Burnley. We don’t have a divine right to beat anyone. This team is sometimes going to perform like a bottom half team, and other times it will perform like a top 6 team, that’s the lower and upper ranges of a squad that is around 8th or 9th best in the league.

Yep. totally agree with that. You've kind of touched on what I was trying to get at but evidently not getting across very well. I think Ancelotti was hired specifically because they thought he could be the difference. I think they're looking at it in a sense that the 8th best squad with a genuinely top class manager - and a smattering of star quality in James - is likely to finish higher than 8th. That's why I think he was a good appointment, because I think it actually fits what they were trying to do.

In terms of outbursts, you're definitely right that there have been over the top reactions at times. I've been guilty of it myself. I can't speak for others but part of it for me is that I don't really like the style of play. I don't really enjoy watching our games but obviously I don't care when we win, that's the main thing. When we lose though, i'm probably less inclined to just shrug it off. That's just me though, I appreciate it isn't important to the club etc, but it frustrates me so i'm more likely to moan than I would if we'd lost an open game that could have gone either way.